Stove idea (LONG post, sorry)

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NYBurner

Burning Hunk
Jan 5, 2015
196
Upstate NY
Im not sure if this has been discussed in the past or not....or is even feasible. The recent discussions regarding stove optimization/efficiency have got me thinking about what options there are truly.
Reading all of these threads and discussions have been great but in some ways pointless as well. I've been waiting to see who would venture into discussion more regarding this....hopefully it is interesting for others as well. At the end of the day we are all trying to optimize thermal heat transfer (out of the burn pot -->exchangers -->convection air output) and there are 2 conflicting ideologies going right now....choke the draft and redirect more air into the fire.

Choking the draft makes the most sense as advice from a manufacture/service perspective as it keeps the stove in manufacture recommended burn temp ranges. Slowing the draft allows more time for the heat exchange to occur, while not affecting the other parameters of the stove operation. It is safe. This bumps extraction efficiency from the fuel used but is not geared to improve the heat exchange rate.

Others are redirecting air or burning a 'hotter' flame to actually get a significant rise in thermal output....This is a stress on the stove itself (albiet likely 'safe') but still a stress. Cheaper stoves with bad metal or thin metal run the risk of burning out components. This method is actually increasing the RATE of thermal exchange by increasing the delta (out of the burn pot -->exchangers) AND again (exchangers-->convection air output). This likely has more loss up the flue.....although with increased heat transfer across the exchangers I am not sure how much net loss there is?

Of the 2 options, I think extracting a hotter flame has given the most feedback in regards to an 'improvement' in output from the community here......and so currently, a higher cfm convection blower, or more thermal mass (turbulators)/better metals are the 2 options of improving the exchange rate in our current configurations.

**Short Attention people here for conclusion**
Has there been any attempt in the past to build a 'smoldering' style pellet stove with an incorporated catalyst?? It seems a pellet stove has everything needed to build a really superior catalyst burner (controlled draft, convection exchange, constant controlled fuel feed). Clean emissions, a REALLY hot burn....any thoughts?
 
I have seen flue-pipe heat exchangers installed on wood stoves They captured heat heading up the vent pipe and kept it inside the structure being heated. They had a small fan mounted in them and worked pretty well..With pellet stoves, you can judge stove efficiency crudely by checking the vent pipe temperature 3 or 4 feet downstream from the stove. Is it too hot to touch? Some are NOT to hot to touch...I suspect all heat exchangers are not created equal..More tubes in a double row work better than a single row of tubes..But in pellet stoves keeping those tubes clean can be a challenge. The scrapers used in many stoves become problematic as the number of tubes is increased...My stove claims 87% efficiency. That means 13% of the heat is escaping out the vent pipe..No wonder I can't touch it..! There certainly must be room for improvement here!
 
If you read the report from the greenheat group regarding stove efficiencies, the amount 'lost' could be significantly more depending on what stove you have.....especially as you increase the heat level. The exchange system on a couple of them reach saturation at medium burn levels which means at higher burn rates that it is almost all wasted.
Was hoping to get some more feedback/experience/info from my post. If it is a feasible idea, it really could be an evolution in the pellet stove design.
 
Incorporated catalyst? What catalyst product or substance are you thinking about? Would it have caustic or corrosive residues left over?
 
The forced draft combustion of a pellet stove burns VERY cleanly even with less than perfect draft adjustment..The addition of a catalyst would not offer much of an improvement as they can with the starved fire in a wood stove.... Improving the heat exchanger and reducing the blower and auger noise would be a worthwhile goal....My Buffalo has a "self-cleaning" grate which actually works and is a big improvement over older models without this feature...Burn-pot combustion stays fairly constant and needs no constant adjustment as the air holes in the grate never plug up....
 
catalyst stoves burn very clean....functions just like a catalytic converter in a car. Palladium/Plat/Rhodium are used to facilitate the burn, Im not sure exactly how the process works but these can be picked up fairly cheap now.

fairwind - you're correct, but thats why I was saying incorporate a 'dirty' burn....this would really need to be a purpose built stove, not just a retrofit. If it works, could really make for some long burn times.
 
catalyst stoves burn very clean....functions just like a catalytic converter in a car. Palladium/Plat/Rhodium are used to facilitate the burn, Im not sure exactly how the process works but these can be picked up fairly cheap now.

fairwind - you're correct, but thats why I was saying incorporate a 'dirty' burn....this would really need to be a purpose built stove, not just a retrofit. If it works, could really make for some long burn times.

Pellets don't lend themselves to a long, smokey burn..They were developed to burn hot and fast and clean....You might be better off going back to an airtight wood-stove with a converter and a flue-heat recovery system....
 
Apparently there are now condensing pellet boilers in Europe. Not sure how they're working out.
 
oh sorry velvet, that reply was for fairwind!

I read up a bit on the condensing pellet boiler, it is a topic others have discussed here in the past actually. Looks pretty cool but is only applicable in a larger furnace type application from what I see.
 
Pellets have a huge surface area..They like to burn fast and hot..That's why the number of pellets in the burn-pot is quite limited, producing a small but very intense fire....Larger amounts of pellets in an airtight stove with a restricted draft would produce a VERY smokey, very inefficient burn..if you fed it all the air it wanted, it would burn hot and fast, you would be tending it constantly...For stoves and fireplaces, they make fuel logs, essentially giant wood pellets..
 
Fairwind - sounds about perfect then....I know people have been giving good feedback with the compressed logs in wood stoves. A very smokey inefficient burn is perfect for a catalyst to run happily, tied with a nice automatic feed pellet system you'd essentially have a catalytic stove that can be set to run in peak conditions (by adjusting feed and draft) with the bonus of constant feeding and a big hopper.....you could end up with some really good heat and nice long burn times as well. Im really tempted to try and build something, but Im not sure about the auger setup.....could make it a pricey endevour to play around with.
 
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