Stove Installation Question

[Lumberjack]

Hi All

Great forum! Lots of good info here.

I am in the process of installing a Pacific Energy Pacific insert in my home. I will be using a SS liner in an existing masonry chimney. I am confused about what type of insulation I should use when installing the liner for the stove (fiberglass vs ceramic). The dealer I purchased both the liner and stove from said that I could use standard fiberglass insulation (with the paper removed!) to insulate at the top of the chimney under the cap and around the liner and that I could also use it in the smoke chamber/around the liner. I plan on installing a block off plate (either custom made or the existing damper in a modified form) and want to be sure to use the correct type of insulation behind it. Why would I chose ceramic over fiberglass? Any input would be much appreciated.

 

[begreen]

Your installer is incorrect and trying to take shortcuts. Be wary. You can use kaowool ceramic insulation or rockwool, but fiberglass is not acceptable. It's melting point is well below the max temps the flue may see. Is this an external chimney? If yes, the entire liner needs to be insulated.

 

[webbie]

Insulation not touching the pipe could be FG - in theory, but ONLY ceramic is used to actually wrap the pipe. FG is only good to 400-1000 degrees (depends on the binder used), while ceramic insulation can take 2000 plus!

I don't know why they would use insulation up at the top for anything. In general, you either insulate the entire pipe or nothing at all. Insulation serves two purposes:
1. Make the pipe warm up quicker and stay warmer - better draft, less creosote and smoke.
2. Protects wood which may be up against the masonry exterior of the chimney (when a chimney is not built to code or is unlined).

On the negative side, it is expensive and sometimes will not fit down the chimney in the case of rectangular and small flue tiles.

 

[Lumberjack]

I asked how they would install the stove if I hired them to do it. The response I received was as follows:

-Run the SS liner down the chimney

-Insulate at the top of the chimney under the plate that will be siliconed to the top of the chimney

-Connect the stove to the liner

-Slide stove in

After reading up on installation on this site, that seemed insufficient.

It sounds like I need the ceramic insulation and to build a block off plate.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[JimWalshin845]

Welcome aboard Lumberjack,

Sounds like you did your homework well. Will you be getting back to your dealer and informing them how to do a proper install?

Good luck with the install!

 

[begreen]

Lumberjack, if this is an exterior chimney, is the flue large enough to handle an insulated liner? If interior flue, this may not be required.

 

[Lumberjack]

Yes, this is an exterior chimney. My plan was to not wrap the liner and try out the stove. If I have poor draft or excess creosote then I was going to install the liner insulation. I wanted to just insulate behind the block off plate to keep the heat in the house and not up the chimney. The chimney is currently fully lined with terracotta tile that is 11" X 11" (inside dim). The mfg's install instructions said that wrapping was not required if I had 4" of non combustible material on all side of the file tile. Any thoughts? Again, the store I purchased the stove and liner from stated that they were quite certain that wrapping the liner would be overkill and that they have only installed a handful of wraps for liners.

On another note, if I had paid them to install the liner and stove would I have been at risk for a fire if they had used fiberglass insulation up against the liner?

Thanks!

 

[begreen]

I believe it's a requirement unless it can be proved the chimney is NFPA 211 compliant. Given the work involved to redo it, I would just go ahead and do it now. It will only make the stove and flue perform better.

Just curious, are they doing this under permit and inspection?

 

[JimWalshin845]

It is a good idea to insulate above the stop, but I think more important to insulate at least the upper portion of the flue where gases are cooler and that is where you going to find your first creosote problems.

I don't know what the costs would be to insulate the whole thing, but I know BG and others really stress the importance of insulating the liner.

 

[Lumberjack]

I pulled a permit for the installation of the stove. The insurance company required proof that it was installed properly in order for it to be added to my policy. Sounds like I need to make some phone calls to get quotes for the flue insulating kit. At least I know it will fit!

 

[JimWalshin845]

When you pulled the permit, did you get a chance to talk with the building inspector? Before you buy anything it is a good idea to touch base with the inspector. He may demand something totally different than what you have in mind.

Make an appointment with the guy and review your plans with him. Ask him if he has any recommendations and if possible get him to sign off on a design plan and parts list. This way there will be no problems when they look at all the nutz and boltz.