Stove Pipe ???

[spiffy1]

Hello!

I stumbled across here and think I found the experts; doesn't look like you mind steering a guy the right direction, so thought I'd sign up and post a question with a couple pictures. If nothing else, perhaps I can give y'all a good laugh or curse my ignorance. ;-)

The outside I have figured out: Menards [as I can't remember brand name] double wall adaptor, 1ft section out to capped Tee, 2 3ft lengths of same up [getting it to the 3ft above the roof] and matching rain cap. A single bracket to re-inforce it right before extending beyond the roof.

This garage used to have a single wall going right out the roof before my time. It has since been shingled over and tinned over that as well. I hate sealing a pipe thimble around ribbed tin, but am considering that option too.

Now for the hooky part: see pictures of concept loosley assembled.

The configuration makes 18" on everything but the last elbow downstairs. Attic, the elbow is a bit close too maybe 12" also the wall would get around the 12 inch marker. I'm wondering if durock at the tight areas (probably against the 2X6, as well as wall downstairs and ceiling and wall in the attic) would get it in code or even common sense [I know: the two should be the same].

The goofy angles strike me against double wall in the attic - I'm thinking 3 Ts there alone - between draft killing and checkbook draining [I do know cheap compared to a fire though] I don't quite see it.

BTW, I did test it with a small cardboard fire, and the draft is surprisingly great.

Oh check out that ceiling thimble...... when you're done laughing, what say's the experts?

 

[spiffy1]

Attic,

Oh I'm thinking about sealing the window in with tin on both sides or remaking a tin upper and skinny pane lower hybrid.

 

[spiffy1]

Is the configuration so scary that no-one even wants to be the one to tell me how crazy I am? I hope just dropping in and posting my strange pictures and questions wasn't considered rude; if so my appologies.

I am going to look at the roof one more time, as much as I hate sealing around ribs on tin (especially with SD temp swings shinking and expanding metal so fast as to make a mockery off all but an excellant job and using good caulk) I know that's the best configuration from performance and safety - so worth a tripple and quadruple consideration.

Oh, I should note the roof tin is 1" ribs rather than the gentle profile in the stuff I had laying around.

Thanks again for looking and please do let me know of any opinions.

 

[begreen]

Yeah, it's hard to know where to start, but welcome. Pictures are good, I'll give it a try. Let's see, single wall is not allowed once the floor has been penetrated. It should be class A pipe from that point on up through the roof. Clearance to combustible, garage installation are other code and safety issues that come to mind. The through the floor support collar is an unknown. Never seen one like that before.

 

[spiffy1]

Yeah, it's hard to know where to start, but welcome. Pictures are good, I'll give it a try. Let's see, single wall is not allowed once the floor has been penetrated. It should be class A pipe from that point on up through the roof. Clearance to combustible, garage installation are other code and safety issues that come to mind. The through the floor support collar is an unknown. Never seen one like that before.

Good eyes! Thanks!

That floor "thimble" is a homemade job I resurected, but despite the ugly factor, with the fact it's oversized and coming through tin rather than wood, it's the one part I wasn't too worried about [shows the amatuer I am]. However, obviously it has no proffesional rating, so seeing you noticed it right away, in the event something did go wrong I'd hate to think what the insurance company [yes, the fire in the first place would stink worse, but that would be insult to injury] would say - even if the fire was electrical and in the middle of the summer.

No single wall after penetrating the floor. Maybe I wasn't looking the right places, but that was the biggest thing I couldn't find information on. I was hoping if I could maintain clearance, it would be ok with that section and elbow at each end before the double adapter, but I'd been pushing the limits anyway.

I still hate buying that many extra double wall components, only to reduce draft potential; I'll need to have another look at through the roof.

 

[Brian VT]

If you're worried about being covered by your insurance then I'd start by asking if a wood stove is permitted in a garage.

 

[KP Matt]

You want something like this kind of set up. Look around for a used one.

What kind of floor is that sitting on?

Also, how close is the stove to the wall?

 

[spiffy1]

If you're worried about being covered by your insurance then I'd start by asking if a wood stove is permitted in a garage.

Thanks!

Coverage is no problem, but sure glad you reminded me; IIRC, they will want to come take a picture. All the more reason to go with the simplest run possible and use black only on the first two sections then going double a couple feet before the ceiling.

On the postive [here's where I realize I'm even more oblivious to the variety of stove pipe available than I thought], the Menards guy did steer me right: the double wall I'm talking about here is Supervent Chimney by Selkirk. Being Menards: likely not the very top quality version sold in Canada [I believe I read somewhere here there is a quality difference], but definitely lifetime warranty, insulated SS, chimney pipe.

 

[Brian VT]

Now you're talking.

 

[spiffy1]

You want something like this kind of set up. Look around for a used one.

What kind of floor is that sitting on?

Also, how close is the stove to the wall?

Concrete floor.

When I placed it I went by the 18" minimum rule on everything; however, googling pipe lately I think noticed the stove should be further? I don't have room to go more than an a couple inches in any direction without making it worse in another, but whatever site I stumbled across [might try to find it again later] noting that also noted I could reduce the required distance by putting fire resistant panels. Is this correct? What is the magic number for varying materials?

 

[spiffy1]

You want something like this kind of set up.

Facing the opposite direction, but otherwise that looks just like the picture I'm going by [now; previously thinking a hybrid of that and wall] in the Menards' Supervent brochure!

Yep, they must have been steering me right. Huge thanks!

Edit: What used part where you refering to? I actually already have the stove pictured [yep, used! Nabbed it from the FIL]; it's a Shenandoah, supposedly considered good quality in it's day, mechanical draft thermostat looks like it still works too. Nothing like the neat high efficiecy units I've read about here, but for occasional use I'm not too worried on the efficiency.

 

[LLigetfa]

Using two 90 degree elbows to make an offset is a really bad idea. When the creosote breaks loose from the pipe, it will collect in the elbow and burn through. Been there, done that, had the chimney fire.

You should transition the offset over as long a distance as possible, never exceeding 30 degrees. You want loose creosote to roll back down into the stove.

 

[spiffy1]

Using two 90 degree elbows to make an offset is a really bad idea. When the creosote breaks loose from the pipe, it will collect in the elbow and burn through. Been there, done that, had the chimney fire.

You should transition the offset over as long a distance as possible, never exceeding 30 degrees. You want loose creosote to roll back down into the stove.

So obvious after you note it, but I'd never thought of that!

Now, if I'm reading right: I'd be better putting one elbow at say 10 or 20 some degrees [quick math definitely puts it under 30] on top of the first 3ft pipe, run the second pipe from this, and then the second elbow to reverse back straight to the chimney pipe adaptor? Or maybe the elbow right at the stove and both sections between; somehow I didn't think an elbow first was a good idea - but not sure it make much difference there or 3ft up?

Would I put the damper in the first or second section - similar to the elbow, I though a few feet up would be slightly cooler, but probaby not that much.

Thanks!

 

[fossil]

I'm not sure I understand any of this. All this talk about the pipe...what about the appliance? What is that thing? What documentation do you have on it? What does the manufacturer say about minimum required clearances to combustibles? Seems to me that until you determine just how the woodburner needs to be installed, all the talk about piping is a bit premature. Unless it's an appliance with extremely close clearances, I'd say it's way too close to combustibles where it's sitting right now. Figure that out, and then figure out the piping. Rick

 

[spiffy1]

I'm not sure I understand any of this. All this talk about the pipe...what about the appliance? What is that thing? What documentation do you have on it? What does the manufacturer say about minimum required clearances to combustibles? Seems to me that until you determine just how the woodburner needs to be installed, all the talk about piping is a bit premature. Unless it's an appliance with extremely close clearances, I'd say it's way too close to combustibles where it's sitting right now. Figure that out, and then figure out the piping. Rick

No idea of the original documentation, just the orginal owner. For clearances I was going by decriptions the FIL has of the setup he used when they heated their entire house with it, but laws likely have changed since. I guess my wife used to curl up by it like a happy puppy.

I have to go out to the garage anyway, so I'll see if I can find some numbers someone here might recognize.

 

[LLigetfa]

What is that thing?
...
I'd say it's way too close to combustibles where it's sitting right now.

It's a redneck stove and way too close. Clearances can always be mitigated by radiation shielding.

 

[spiffy1]

What is that thing?
...
I'd say it's way too close to combustibles where it's sitting right now.

It's a redneck stove and way too close. Clearances can always be mitigated by radiation shielding.

I'm going to regret this, but "is redneck a good thing or a bad thing?" All the steel as well as the firebrick [if that's the right term] look very good yet.

Thinking the phone in my pocket would stay drier across the driveway in the rain than the camera in my hand, I tried that first, but the pictures are terrible. It's definitely a Shenandoah, but I can't find the model number - I'm thinking 1980's era, but may need to ask my wife about that.

What are the clearances for various appropriate shielding materials? Ohhh, am I full of questions!

 

[LLigetfa]

"is redneck a good thing or a bad thing?"

Sorry, I didn't mean to dis' the stove. It's hard to tell from the photo but it almost looks home made, not something one would ever find a UL listing and clearance specs for. I think you will just have to play it safe and put up heat shielding.

 

[begreen]

If you're worried about being covered by your insurance then I'd start by asking if a wood stove is permitted in a garage.

Thanks!

Coverage is no problem, but sure glad you reminded me; IIRC, they will want to come take a picture. All the more reason to go with the simplest run possible and use black only on the first two sections then going double a couple feet before the ceiling.

On the postive [here's where I realize I'm even more oblivious to the variety of stove pipe available than I thought], the Menards guy did steer me right: the double wall I'm talking about here is Supervent Chimney by Selkirk. Being Menards: likely not the very top quality version sold in Canada [I believe I read somewhere here there is a quality difference], but definitely lifetime warranty, insulated SS, chimney pipe.

I think I mentioned the garage as one of the code issues. A wood stove is not permitted in a garage, regardless of what the insurance company says unless locally there is a variance. If this is a detached garage, that might be possible.

It's hard to say which Shenandoah you have. If you can post a closer, sharper picture of the lower business end of the stove where the air controls are we might be able to comment further. Shenandoah made some coal stoves too and this has a resemblance to those models. Seeing the air controls and knowing if there is a shaker grate would help.

 

[LLigetfa]

I googled and found the stove. It's the model R65. The minimum clearance is 36 inches.
http://sierraproductsinc.net/pages/shenandoah.htm

 

[spiffy1]

"is redneck a good thing or a bad thing?"

Sorry, I didn't mean to dis' the stove. It's hard to tell from the photo but it almost looks home made, not something one would ever find a UL listing and clearance specs for. I think you will just have to play it safe and put up heat shielding.

No offense taken; pretty sure it's UL [at least by the standards of it's day], but you're right: without the documentation probably easiest to assume the worst case scenario for clearances. Ideally, I'd like to work in some heat sheilding anyway in such a manner that I can direct a box fan on the floor toward the right side and have good transitions for it so I'll have nice warm air drifting back toward the center of the garage - only single stall size, so probably quite doable - the FIL is quite conviced even as loose as that garage is I could roast myself out if I wanted too.

On the other hand, before I decide on material to finish the area beside/behind it, I'm still thinking I should get it to peak operating temps (I did buy a [cheapo] stove thermometer when shopping for pipe) for a couple hours and feel all the surfaces around it every 15minutes to see what I'm really dealing with.

Actually, this will seldom see even 12hours continous use, but I still want to come back into the house without loosing sleep over hot coals in it yet.

 

[spiffy1]

I googled and found the stove. It's the model R65. The minimum clearance is 36 inches.
http://sierraproductsinc.net/pages/shenandoah.htm

Maybe a couple small updates [feet caught my attention] but that's the creature! I never suspected they still made it. Yep, they note 36 or reduced [but not specified] clearance with heat sheilds.

Thanks so much again!

edit: not sure if he still hangs around here, but it looks like "savageactor7" speaks well of it's construction

 

[spiffy1]

I think I mentioned the garage as one of the code issues. A wood stove is not permitted in a garage, regardless of what the insurance company says unless locally there is a variance. If this is a detached garage, that might be possible.

Yep, detached; sorry about not clarifying that earlier.

 

[LLigetfa]

...even as loose as that garage is I could roast myself out if I wanted too.

I spent one winter on an island in a trapper's cabin that was just boards nailed to the studs on the outside, no tar paper or anything. Laying in bed with my -40 rated down sleeping bag, the snow would blow onto my face through the cracks. We had a redneck barrel stove made from an oil drum that we'd stoke up at bedtime. Somewhere through the night I'd wake up in a sweat from the heat. The whole stove and single-walled stovepipe would be orange and cherry and rumbling like a freight train. If I didn't wake up again before morning to re-stoke it, there would be ice in the water pail.

I'm sure your stove will do much better. Heat shields are good as they convert radiant heat into convection heat.

 

[oconnor]

I understand that sometimes we need to make do with what we have, but I would not light anything in that stove until you have a proper flu installed, straight up. I would hate to see you lose your building and contents, let alone get hurt.