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Stove required for "Wood Stove Design Challenge"

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by Kiwi Firemaster, Aug 7, 2013.

  1. Kiwi Firemaster

    Kiwi Firemaster New Member

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    Hi I am Jason, finalist in the Popular Mechanics sponsored Wood Stove Design Challenge.

    It will be my first visit to North America for the November challenge in Washington DC, and getting there itself will be a challenge.

    You will see from the list of entrants that the IntensiFire technology is a retrofit which means I need a wood stove to modify.

    Can you help with one?

    If you can help me with a stove for the duration of the challenge then the bonus for you is you get back a highly efficient clean burning stove.

    There are a few requirements though, the first is that it is best if it is no longer in production, or the rights to the brand not still owned. The rules state that there must be approval from the manufacturer to use the stove in the challenge. If you are a manufacturer and are happy to supply and old model then I would be glad to hear from you.

    On the technical side I am looking for a top exit flue of 6" or 150mm diameter. The core of my technology is a flue extension inside the stove, so any baffles or obstructions need to be easily removable to achieve this. I have found that a North/South design does have some advantages, but I will take an East/West if it is on offer.

    If you are in Washington DC and have the means to move a wood stove then I would like to hear from you as well.

    FYI to ship one from New Zealand would cost around $2000 NZD, so a local source is the way to go.

    I will also throw in the mix a request for accomodation in DC for myself and my retired father(he is paying for the flights). Plan at the moment is to find a hostel in walking distance to the National Mall.

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  2. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Welcome Jason. Just to clarify, are you looking for a used stove in New Zealand or here in the US? If in NZ, maybe approach Kent or Woodsman?
  3. Kiwi Firemaster

    Kiwi Firemaster New Member

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    Sorry I didn't make that clear enough. I need a wood stove IN the US as the cost to ship from New Zealand is prohibitive. Obviously a stove right in Washington DC would be best, but I imagine ground shipping within the US won't not be so bad.

    I have my own test stove, a Magnum P200, that can be seen in "the finalists" image of me. It could be flat packed but the minimum for shipping is a cubic metre so that won't help much.
  4. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Mike, would Englander like to get in on this? It's free publicity if nothing else.
  5. dafattkidd

    dafattkidd Minister of Fire

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    Jason, good luck, man! Unfortunately I have nothing to offer you, but well wishes. This competition is intriguing to me. The first session took place at Brookhaven Labs which is ten minutes from my house. I hope you do well, and have fun. I don't know how much you know about DC but it may not be the safest place to stay in a hostel. With any luck you'll find a host family for you and your father. Good luck, man and congratulations for getting this far in the competition, that alone is something to be really proud of.
  6. clemsonfor

    clemsonfor Minister of Fire

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    This is an interesting and strange idea to me. Will be hard to find I think. Many old stoves will still have a parent company or that very same company is still around. Many of the old stoves that are defunct manufacturers are prolly cracked or scraped at this point. And how will they judge.? A 50 yr old leaky beast of a stove can see vast improvements but say a 20 yr old one not as much. Even if u do percentage gains an old one is easier to gain from.

    Also I don't think you will find a "hostile" within walking distance to the mall or where ever in DC. A homeless shelter maybe, but this is not Europe and is not quite the same as things there. DC is also not a safe area after dark. Daytime is pretty safe in tourist areas but wander a few streets away and can still be. Out safe in daytime. Before Chicago rose to its current place DC use to be our murder capital of the US. I don't mean to scare you just wanting to inform you. Good luck in your endeavor.
  7. rdust

    rdust Minister of Fire

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    Have you considered purchasing an older wood stove when you get here, it may work out easier for you. An older stove off a site like craigslist shouldn't break the bank. November is our heating season so not many burners will want to part with their stove during that period.

    Good Luck with the challenge!
  8. mellow

    mellow Resident Stove Connoisseur

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    There are a ton of older non-epa stoves around the area for sale you could pickup for around $200, the issue is most of them are 8" top vent. To find a 6" top vent will mean it is going to be an EPA approved stove more than likely and that company is still in business.

    I know you can find a non-epa 8" exhaust Timberland or Kodak insert/stove around here for sale, I do believe they are no longer owned?

    Any ideas on what stove you need, I can keep an eye out for one. Come November everyone comes out of the woodwork trying to sell one.
  9. mellow

    mellow Resident Stove Connoisseur

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    I think I have an idea of a stove, I will do some looking to see what I can find.

    I can find CFM stoves here and there, but they are owned by SBI, not sure if that will work or not.

    This is what he is currently using:

    274404966.jpg
  10. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Here is his invention in action.

  11. mellow

    mellow Resident Stove Connoisseur

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    Boy that thing really eats up space in the firebox.
  12. jharkin

    jharkin Minister of Fire

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    Actually there is a HI Hostel downtown, I stayed there when I was a kid in the Boy Scouts. I didn't die (but otherwise agree about crime and safety in DC).


    I went back to look up the adress, its on 11th and K - about 1 mile from the national mall.
  13. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Were it me I would contact the NZ embassy in D.C. for guidance.
  14. Kiwi Firemaster

    Kiwi Firemaster New Member

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    Thanks for all the replies and the interest.

    Dafatkidd & Celmsonfor: I served some time in NZ as a Police Officer so I generally have a pretty good self awareness. Mind you we didn't/don't carry firearms in the normal course of duty and hand guns are rare in this country as they are restricted. I am old enough to remember the DC murder rate being a headline issue.

    Clemsonfor: I have had this independently tested in a calorific room and my test stove went from 52% to 75% efficiency. I have made it better since then. This is on a wet basis so add 7% to get a North American Equivalent. So even on a 20 year old stove it could still give a good boost. I am not being judged on the improvement though, it will be on an equal basis with other stoves although they have to compete with me on cost :) I can actually deal with mild cracking and have used a technique to refurbish an old stove this way. longevity of the repairs is still unknown though, but it would be enough to get me through the Design Challenge.

    Rdust and Mellow: I only recently found out about craigslist and this will be an option. I thought these forums would be worth a try though :) Problem is always going to be getting around the rule of the manufacturers approval, but I can only ask.

    I could go to a 8" if really pushed, it would just mean going into the Design Challenge a bit blind and with no testing of the larger size. Mellow that photo you posted is exactly the sort of wood stove my technology was designed for and what I have been using for three winters now. That style is very common here. If you check the date on the you-tube video, that is still my daily stove. However I have made changes and the MK II version uses a smaller diameter tube so is less intrusive in the firebox. The baffle comes out so you gain a little height in the firebox as well. Even with the room lost to the tube the output in the above mentioned test still went up by 40%.

    BrotherBart: For Green Heat have encouraged us to get in contact with our respective embassy's, and may also do so on our behalf. I might pay a visit to your embassy here as well :)

    jharken: Thanks for the heads up on that one.
  15. stoveguy2esw

    stoveguy2esw Minister of Fire

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    hmmmmm....

    "There are a few requirements though, the first is that it is best if it is no longer in production, or the rights to the brand not still owned. The rules state that there must be approval from the manufacturer to use the stove in the challenge. If you are a manufacturer and are happy to supply and old model then I would be glad to hear from you."

    i dunno if i have anything that is no longer in production laying around other than an old 18-p i have sitting in my garage rusted as hello. only current stove i make that is n/s is the 30 (link to product for the OP just in case)http://www.englanderstoves.com/30-nc.html

    not my call , but i can check.

    to the OP even if i cant work this out or my stove isn't going to work for you i look forward to meeting you in DC.

    looking at the rules im not sure the 30 would qualify as its still in production and the brand rights obviously are owned. but we are close to DC (3 hours or so driving)
  16. clemsonfor

    clemsonfor Minister of Fire

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    Handguns are illegal in DC to as well a s most of the high crime cities. But the criminals still have guns ;-)
    Johnny Dill likes this.
  17. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Enough of the dangerous D.C. stuff. I have been in and out of there regularly for 28 years and it is as safe as any big city. You just stay out of the bad parts of town. Just like any city.

    Safer actually in the areas where not only the D.C. cops patrol but the Feds too.
  18. MishMouse

    MishMouse Minister of Fire

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    I wonder how that would work with a barrel stove?
    Since they are very basic and somewhat cheap to make adding an option like that to one may be a good idea.
    Also with a barrel stove you have a lot more room internally to work with.
  19. Huntindog1

    Huntindog1 Minister of Fire

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    Attached Files:

  20. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Maybe Coaly can supply a smaller Fisher?
  21. jharkin

    jharkin Minister of Fire

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    I could be missing something, but the concept looks somewhat like the old Vermont Castings horizontal burn system from the 80s where the flue exit was down low on the sides and fed the secondary burn chamber with its own separate air intake.
  22. Huntindog1

    Huntindog1 Minister of Fire

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    This is an add on device for older stoves. To make them more efficient.
  23. teutonicking

    teutonicking Feeling the Heat

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    Brother Bart is correct. I was born in this area and still work in D.C. Northwest DC is safe. Anywhere within 4 blocks of the Capitol building is extremely safe (because there is a separate Capitol police force that patrols this area). The competition is on the Mall, which is fine. You just should avoid going into SE, SW, and NE parts of the city if possible.
  24. teutonicking

    teutonicking Feeling the Heat

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    It looks cool. Would it improve a new cat stove (such as a Progress Hybrid)?

    If so, how much?

    Also, can it work with rear vent, or is it designed only for top venting stoves?
  25. Huntindog1

    Huntindog1 Minister of Fire

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    The Progress stove already has a secondary air manifold built into them to inject pre-heated air into the smoke path to burn alot of the smoke before it enters the cat. But also at lower operating levels the cat is the main device that cleans up the exhaust as at lower settings the secondary air injection is not as effective. Thats why you can get longer burn times from cat stoves as they operate at lower input air settings for slower burns.

    This device is an add on device is accomplishing getting you a secondary preheated air injection to older stoves that where not designed with it to begin with.

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