stoveguy2esw
Minister of Fire
this is true, but I didn't know what type of cat was in the stove in question so I figured it would be a good thing to bring up
Stoves that don't like wet wood...
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this is true, but I didn't know what type of cat was in the stove in question so I figured it would be a good thing to bring up
Highbeam
Minister of Fire
So would this mean that the door leaks, which cause 95% of all BK cat failures via thermal shock, are not an issue with durafoil cats?
BKVP
Minister of Fire
More likely to create excess temps and cause washcoat to peel...which is how precious metals are adhered.
Certainly more robust and less sensitive to abuse...but not bullet proof!
Certainly more robust and less sensitive to abuse...but not bullet proof!
drz1050
Minister of Fire
My stove is an Ashford 30.1 with the steel cat... I've been looking for bio bricks a little up here, have only found one place so far, selling them for $370/ ton. Gonna pass on that.. maybe I'll be burning some pallet wood this year.
Just keep in mind framing and most trim is softwood very dry and burns hot and fast. A lot of pallets while dry are hardwood. Things to keep your eyes open is someone remodeling and tearing out trashed hardwood flooring. I have had to burn less than perfect wood and splitting it down to the size of a 2X4 helps a bunch bringing it in a couple days before you need it helps as well is around 4 or 5 feet from stove where radiant heat and low humidity can help it along. Oh and no plywood LOL learned that the hard way and pretty exciting for about an hour or so. The glues are like pouring gasoline into the stove.
drz1050
Minister of Fire
I've been tearing out the old hardwood floors in my house lately... pretty sure I don't want to burn those with all their layers of poly and who knows what else over the years... a good amount of it was painted a few times as well. They've just been going to the outside fire pit.
BKVP
Minister of Fire
Try calling NORTH IDAHO ENERGY LOGS in Moyie Springs Idaho. The owner tells me he has set up dealers in New York to sell their logs. They are super, just burn 2-3 at a time, mixed with some cordwood and you'll be happy.
mwhitnee
Minister of Fire
This concerns me. I am supplementing my wood with envi blocks and my wood splits a couple weeks ago ranged from 15-25%. I took wood from the outside stack of my cube of wood (only way to fit it) so I'm thinking the inside wood MC is higher (lets say 25-30%). BK I have a new BK King, it's looking like my cat is ceramic? I'm concerned about reloading and damaging the cat.
jharkin
Minister of Fire
The other problem with adding fuel to a cat stove while the fire is still hot (beyond thermal shock)... is the potential for a runaway. Better cat stoves like BK and Woodstock might tolerate it fine but I made this mistake once with a VC and will never, ever do it again.
In my first couple rookie years I found that wood over 30% was very hard to even get lit. Wood between 25 and 30% was burnable if you mixed in dry stuff but watch forh te buildup. Under 25% burned ok. Under 20% was like gold... but you have to be careful not to overfire with certain stoves.
** disclaimer - unproven theory **
As far as tube stoves "tolerating" wet wood... its just that they cant burn as low and slow as a cat so the water boils off faster.... Sure you don't have a cat to clog up, you are just clogging up your chimney liner instead. In either type of stove if you have to deal with less than seasoned what I would do is mix in dry stuff - pallets 2x4 scraps, etc - and load all the dry first, then put the wetter wood on top.. During the start of the burn cycle as you are firing wide open to get the stove up to temp and char the load hopefully the dry stuff is burning hot and fast and helping to drive some of the moisture out of the wetter stuff and send it up the stack as steam while the stack temps are hot enough to prevent it from condensing in the pipe. Then once the cycle is established hopefully the less seasoned wood has baked enough to burn half decent.
Anyway, that's just a guess ... Mike or BKVP might be able to shed more light on if I'm guessing right or not based on their research.
** end disclaimer **
In my first couple rookie years I found that wood over 30% was very hard to even get lit. Wood between 25 and 30% was burnable if you mixed in dry stuff but watch forh te buildup. Under 25% burned ok. Under 20% was like gold... but you have to be careful not to overfire with certain stoves.
** disclaimer - unproven theory **
As far as tube stoves "tolerating" wet wood... its just that they cant burn as low and slow as a cat so the water boils off faster.... Sure you don't have a cat to clog up, you are just clogging up your chimney liner instead. In either type of stove if you have to deal with less than seasoned what I would do is mix in dry stuff - pallets 2x4 scraps, etc - and load all the dry first, then put the wetter wood on top.. During the start of the burn cycle as you are firing wide open to get the stove up to temp and char the load hopefully the dry stuff is burning hot and fast and helping to drive some of the moisture out of the wetter stuff and send it up the stack as steam while the stack temps are hot enough to prevent it from condensing in the pipe. Then once the cycle is established hopefully the less seasoned wood has baked enough to burn half decent.
Anyway, that's just a guess ... Mike or BKVP might be able to shed more light on if I'm guessing right or not based on their research.
** end disclaimer **
drz1050
Minister of Fire
I've heard a lot of good things about the NIELs, didn't know they were available in NY.. I'll call today, thanks!
Still well over 99% oak that small impurity should not change much. If no fumes in the firepit why worry about the stove? Unless a fussy cat stove that needs perfect wood. Do you need a firewood washing machine for a cat stove?
edyit
Minister of Fire
I don't know if you'd need a washing machine for a cat stove but if it has poly / stain / paint i wouldn't want to burn it in my stove. If it was bare hard wood then i sure as heck would, but not with the other stuff on it.
mellow
Resident Stove Connoisseur
NIEL says they are shipping by Rail to MA and people are distributing from there, no love for us in MD 
drz1050
Minister of Fire
Called NIEL, no dealers in NY yet. They're sending them to MA, but the one dealer I spoke to there is asking $380/ pallet.
I did find a place semi-local that has envi blocks for $290.. anyone have experience with those?
I did find a place semi-local that has envi blocks for $290.. anyone have experience with those?
Envi Blocks are pretty good, like ECO blocks. There are also BioBricks which tested well. The main thing you want is a high density fuel.
As an alternative to NIELs contact Home Fires at 1-877-580-1743 to see if they have any dealers in your area. They make HomeFire Prest-Logs which in my testing were high quality, high density logs with good long burn times.
As an alternative to NIELs contact Home Fires at 1-877-580-1743 to see if they have any dealers in your area. They make HomeFire Prest-Logs which in my testing were high quality, high density logs with good long burn times.
Looks like these folks sell BioBricks:
518-753-6911
Hoosac Valley Farmers Exchange
212 Main St.
Shaghticoke, New York 12154
There are reviews of BioBricks, NIELS and Prest-Logs here:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/fuels/
518-753-6911
Hoosac Valley Farmers Exchange
212 Main St.
Shaghticoke, New York 12154
There are reviews of BioBricks, NIELS and Prest-Logs here:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/fuels/
BKVP
Minister of Fire
Keep the door gasket snug, mimimize use of wood above 20%. If you are needing to keep the door ajar in order to get the wood to burn, either your wood is really wet or not enough draw and leaving a door ajar would be hard on the cat. Other than these fyi's, you should be fine.
RFarm
Member
Going on year 4 with my Sedore and can attest to burning my share of less than seasoned wood. The Sedore being a top load, down draft design will handle poorly seasoned wood (psw) if it is placed at the top of the load - thus requiring some dry wood to build the coals and get the stove and pipe temps right. The psw drys out a bit as the stove only burns the wood at the bottom of the stack, so by the time stack has burned down and the psw reaches the coals - it is much drier and burns decent enough. You still have the problems of crud formation, but it is doable as long as you are committed to regular sweeps and cap cleanings. Like mentioned above - dry wood is always better.
weatherguy
Minister of Fire
Pallets are a SOB unless you have a good tool like thisI know people burn pallets in a bind but WOW those things are held together with a lot of nails. They are more work than cutting regular cord wood. I can't imagine cutting up enough of those things to make it through a Schenectady Winter.
bodhran
Burning Hunk
We had a fella selling green wood here and encouraging people to buy it for their fire pits to slow down the fire...lol
Pallets are a SOB unless you have a good tool like this
A demo blade in a circular saw cuts the flats even with the rails easy and sawsall with demo blade cuts each rail into 4 pieces around 16 inches long 2 minutes and done. 30 to 45 minutes does a half dozen and enough for over a week in the shoulder season and free.. Dealing with the nails a waste of time. That is one evil looking tool though looks like something to remove old flooring.
fire_man
Minister of Fire
I was going to use the word "evil" as well to describe that tool.
Unfortunately with cat stove you shouldn't burn nails, I think because they could be galvanized and that hurts the cat. Sounds like you have cutting them down to a science, I used a sawzall and a circular saw but it was a real PITA.
Unfortunately with cat stove you shouldn't burn nails, I think because they could be galvanized and that hurts the cat. Sounds like you have cutting them down to a science, I used a sawzall and a circular saw but it was a real PITA.
My old stove does not care though would not put them in the coal stove though as the grates will jam and be a large task to clear them.
Huntindog1
Minister of Fire
Tube Stoves work by building the temps up in the insulated firebox. The firebox is insulated with the firebrick on the bottom and up the sides and back. Then usually a Ceramic Baffle board is just above the tubes to keep the heat up around the tubes. The ceramic baffle board has insulative properties. Some stoves us Pumice firebrick that have a higher insulation value to keep more heat in the firebox. Once you build the heat up in the firebox the preheated econdary air coming in thru the tubes will ignite the smoke as it rises up from the wood. So you get more heat from the wood your burning as your not waisting the smoke gases and letting them just go up the flue.
If your wood has alot of moisture in it then the water that is boiling out of the wood rises up and cools the smoke gases and the temps in the stove drops and kills the secondary flames that are needed to add heat to the whole operation. So thats why wood that is not 20% moisture or less will not burn so well in these type stoves. These stoves are designed to have very little air flow as these stove dont need all that air flow as when the temps get really high in a insulated firebox the fire can burn with very small amounts of air. This works in your favor as having very small amounts of air entering the firebox slows down the amount of heat escaping up the flue. As this smaller air flow thru the stove gives the heat more residual time to radiate out into your room. I think wood that is even drier say 18% or lower will allow the stove to burn even more efficiently as the stove box temps rise even more and these higher temps allow for a more efficient burn of the smoke gases as in burn up of more of the gases before they escape up the flue. Plus with even drier wood you can turnn down the input air just a little lower and still maintain secondary flames. Wood that has a little more moisture makes you have to keep the air open a little more and more heat flushes up the flue and less heat gets radiated out into your room. Plus with the stove burning cooler your not getting as much heat from a good burn of the smoke gasses so no matter how you look at it good seasoned dry wood improves your performance greatly.
Cat stoves once the heat is built up will fire off . But the heat doesnt have to build up as high to fire off the cat compared to the heat needed to fire secondary flames from burn tubes. So Cats will fire off at a lower temp so a little more moisture doesnt have as much of an effect. Plus once a Cat fires off it is now buring at like 1200 degrees or higher and is kind of self sustaining to a certain extent and can over come a little more moisture than a tube stove. But too much moisture can crack a ceramic Cat and stainless steel Cats are more durable to cracking than ceramic. I think Stainless Steel cats heat up quicker.
If your wood has alot of moisture in it then the water that is boiling out of the wood rises up and cools the smoke gases and the temps in the stove drops and kills the secondary flames that are needed to add heat to the whole operation. So thats why wood that is not 20% moisture or less will not burn so well in these type stoves. These stoves are designed to have very little air flow as these stove dont need all that air flow as when the temps get really high in a insulated firebox the fire can burn with very small amounts of air. This works in your favor as having very small amounts of air entering the firebox slows down the amount of heat escaping up the flue. As this smaller air flow thru the stove gives the heat more residual time to radiate out into your room. I think wood that is even drier say 18% or lower will allow the stove to burn even more efficiently as the stove box temps rise even more and these higher temps allow for a more efficient burn of the smoke gases as in burn up of more of the gases before they escape up the flue. Plus with even drier wood you can turnn down the input air just a little lower and still maintain secondary flames. Wood that has a little more moisture makes you have to keep the air open a little more and more heat flushes up the flue and less heat gets radiated out into your room. Plus with the stove burning cooler your not getting as much heat from a good burn of the smoke gasses so no matter how you look at it good seasoned dry wood improves your performance greatly.
Cat stoves once the heat is built up will fire off . But the heat doesnt have to build up as high to fire off the cat compared to the heat needed to fire secondary flames from burn tubes. So Cats will fire off at a lower temp so a little more moisture doesnt have as much of an effect. Plus once a Cat fires off it is now buring at like 1200 degrees or higher and is kind of self sustaining to a certain extent and can over come a little more moisture than a tube stove. But too much moisture can crack a ceramic Cat and stainless steel Cats are more durable to cracking than ceramic. I think Stainless Steel cats heat up quicker.
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