Summit Insert question

[karl]

Does anybody in here have a PE Summit insert with the blower motor on the left of it? I'm getting ready to add a second blower to mine and I know the older Summit inserts had them on the left.

I'd love to know a few part numbers from them. It would save me some fabricating.

Thanks.

 

[thechimneysweep]

Karl, I'd advise caution here. Manufacturers must be careful to size their blowers so they don't blow too much air through the plenum and cool the firebox below secondary burn temperature. For this reason, various models we've sold have had blowers that maxed out at 80 cfm, 120 cfm, 160 cfm and 250 cfm. Doubling the 160 cfm airflow rate that PE found optimum for your Summit via the addition of a second blower would almost certainly adversely affect your stove's performance.

 

[begreen]

Karl, wasn't your Summit new just a season ago? I would think it would be more than adequate in your climate heating 2200 sq ft. Could it be the wood that was burned last season or perhaps more insulation, caulking and weatherstripping is needed?

 

[iceman]

thought..... if you have 2 blowers on low its not the same as one on high.....you will move more air but at a slower pace ....like getting more hot air out without cooling air by running a blower on high......make sense?...... just a thought

 

[RedRanger]

thought..... if you have 2 blowers on low its not the same as one on high.....you will move more air but at a slower pace ....like getting more hot air out without cooling air by running a blower on high......make sense?...... just a thought

Ya beat me to it.. I was wondering the same thing.??

 

[iceman]

thought..... if you have 2 blowers on low its not the same as one on high.....you will move more air but at a slower pace ....like getting more hot air out without cooling air by running a blower on high......make sense?...... just a thought

Ya beat me to it.. I was wondering the same thing.??

could this be a sign........two great minds?????????

 

[BrotherBart]

thought..... if you have 2 blowers on low its not the same as one on high.....you will move more air but at a slower pace ....like getting more hot air out without cooling air by running a blower on high......make sense?...... just a thought

Ya beat me to it.. I was wondering the same thing.??

could this be a sign........two great minds?????????

Nah. It means you are starting to think like an old Canuck. :lol:

 

[Hogwildz]

If you do not have an OAK hooked up and put another blower fan on the left side, it will be competing for the intake combustion air.

 

[thechimneysweep]

thought..... if you have 2 blowers on low its not the same as one on high.....you will move more air but at a slower pace ....like getting more hot air out without cooling air by running a blower on high......make sense?...... just a thought

UMM.... I don't think so. It seems to me you may be confusing velocity with flow rate. A 160 cfm blower moves 160 cubic feet of air per minute. If you turned it down to half throttle, it would move 80 cubic feet of air per minute. Add another blower also adjusted to 80 cfm, and you'd be moving 160 cubic feet per minute, just as if you were operating the original blower at full throttle. Any combination of settings on both blowers lower than 80 cfm each would move less air than the original blower at the high (160 cfm) setting, and so would be pointless.

Another angle: let's say as a manufacturer, you've determined that a flow rate above 180 cfm will cool your firebox down below secondary ignition temperature. Your solution: limit your blower flow rate to 160 cfm. Now, let's say I add another blower to the system, and run them each at just 90 cfm. My combined flow rate of 180 cfm would have the same cooling affect on the firebox as a single 180 cfm blower, and I would cool the firebox below secondary combustion temperature. If I was paying attention, I'd soon learn to turn both blowers down to 80 cfm, or discontinue the use of one of them altogether.

I had sort of hoped that my original post would quash this idea, because I didn't want to get into some of the other potential problems. For one, there are deflectors built into the rear plenum to harness blower air moving right-left and channel most of it up and over the top plate. These would be in the wrong position for air from the add-on blower traveling left-right, and direct this flow downward, where it would have to fight against the natural upflow of heated air. Another thought: the EBT sensor is on the bottom plate, and forcing room air past that area with the left-mounted blower might cool it down to a point where the EBT wouldn't actuate.

Hogwildz, as usual, also brings up a valid point: unless you're burning outside air through the rear inlet, a blower on the left side would likely mess with the combustion air intake.

 

[karl]

I knew I would open up a can of worms here.

Sweep. First the air doesn't move behind the plenum and actually I've looked at the deflectors and they are really an after thought on this stove. They run across the top of the stove as does all of the air from the blower. They don't even flow air over the whole top of the stop, only about half of it at best. Really just have of the front half or so. I think the whole blower system was an after thought. If you look at it. It doesn't move air from around much of the stove. The deflectors don't deflect across much of the stove. Anybody that has a Summit insert can tell you that even with the fan on high, air only comes out the left side of the top vent. If you look at the deflectors, the air isn't even moving across the whole right side, Just the back right. It's a case of we have a great stove and we want to turn it into an insert and that calls for a fan, so lets stick something on it.

I have a sheet metal brake and I can make more and better deflectors. I can even experiment with them to see what's the best.

I doubt doubling the airflow would cool it off past secondary ignition, The secondary ignition occurs below the insulated baffell inside the stove. The blower air goes across the stove above it and above the exhaust to the chimney. but that's not really what I'm trying to do. I'm more concerned with moving the same amount of air, but doing it quieter. Running the fan at half throttle is pretty quiet, wide open its very nosiy, it keeps me awake at night. Running two at half throttle will be much quieter than one wide open.

Your right I'm starting year two on the insert. I didn't want to change anything the first year. I wanted to get the hang of things and establish a baseline.

I'm going to insulate above, behind, and beside, the insert with rockwool. This will keep alot more heat in the stove and alot less going out the chimney and behind the stove. I want as mush as possible coming into the room.

I have an OAK on it now.

I also understand that it is possible to move air across a surface so fast that little heat exchange occurs. The 160 CFM fan doesn't max this out. I check with a thermometer last year. Half fan and full fan produce about the same temperature of air, just less volume.

That said. Two fans will let me sleep at night without the noise, and with better heat deflectors and airflow, and insulation to keep the heat in the stove instead of up the chimney, I think I can get more into the house.

Anway, I hope somebody can answer the original question. I'm planning to do this mod either way.


Thanks again.

Oh, and when it's done I'll be sure to post pics on Elks forum to get him started.

 

[iceman]

I knew I would open up a can of worms here.

Sweep. First the air doesn't move behind the plenum and actually I've looked at the deflectors and they are really an after thought on this stove. They run across the top of the stove as does all of the air from the blower. They don't even flow air over the whole top of the stop, only about half of it at best. Really just have of the front half or so. I think the whole blower system was an after thought. If you look at it. It doesn't move air from around much of the stove. The deflectors don't deflect across much of the stove. Anybody that has a Summit insert can tell you that even with the fan on high, air only comes out the left side of the top vent. If you look at the deflectors, the air isn't even moving across the whole right side, Just the back right. It's a case of we have a great stove and we want to turn it into an insert and that calls for a fan, so lets stick something on it.

I have a sheet metal brake and I can make more and better deflectors. I can even experiment with them to see what's the best.

I doubt doubling the airflow would cool it off past secondary ignition, The secondary ignition occurs below the insulated baffell inside the stove. The blower air goes across the stove above it and above the exhaust to the chimney. but that's not really what I'm trying to do. I'm more concerned with moving the same amount of air, but doing it quieter. Running the fan at half throttle is pretty quiet, wide open its very nosiy, it keeps me awake at night. Running two at half throttle will be much quieter than one wide open.

Your right I'm starting year two on the insert. I didn't want to change anything the first year. I wanted to get the hang of things and establish a baseline.

I'm going to insulate above, behind, and beside, the insert with rockwool. This will keep alot more heat in the stove and alot less going out the chimney and behind the stove. I want as mush as possible coming into the room.

I have an OAK on it now.

I also understand that it is possible to move air across a surface so fast that little heat exchange occurs. The 160 CFM fan doesn't max this out. I check with a thermometer last year. Half fan and full fan produce about the same temperature of air, just less volume.

That said. Two fans will let me sleep at night without the noise, and with better heat deflectors and airflow, and insulation to keep the heat in the stove instead of up the chimney, I think I can get more into the house.

Anway, I hope somebody can answer the original question. I'm planning to do this mod either way.


Thanks again.

Oh, and when it's done I'll be sure to post pics on Elks forum to get him started.

good luck and send pictures

 

[Hogwildz]

Lets us know how it works out for ya.