I have a BCD36MH fireplace in my home and I would like to get a wood stove insert for it. It has a small opening so not sure if they even make one that will work. Has anyone done this with this model fireplace and if so what did you get? Thank you very much.
Superior BCD36MH Fireplace
- Thread starter gwengert
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Grisu
Minister of Fire
Welcome to the forum!
That is a prefab fireplace. We have discussion here on a regular basis whether you can put an insert in such a fireplace. Most likely the manual/manufacturer of the fireplace will say that the unit is not approved for putting an insert in. However, some insert manufacturers approve their units for use in a zero clearance fireplace. It is certainly a grey area and your local building code/inspector and your home insurance may be ok with it or not. I would certainly check with them before installing anything.
I feel the best and a safe way of using that fireplace would be to put a freestanding rear-vented stove in front of the fireplace and run an insulated liner in the existing chimney. How high is the fireplace opening measured from the hearth? How deep it the hearth? How much of a space do you want to heat?
That is a prefab fireplace. We have discussion here on a regular basis whether you can put an insert in such a fireplace. Most likely the manual/manufacturer of the fireplace will say that the unit is not approved for putting an insert in. However, some insert manufacturers approve their units for use in a zero clearance fireplace. It is certainly a grey area and your local building code/inspector and your home insurance may be ok with it or not. I would certainly check with them before installing anything.
I feel the best and a safe way of using that fireplace would be to put a freestanding rear-vented stove in front of the fireplace and run an insulated liner in the existing chimney. How high is the fireplace opening measured from the hearth? How deep it the hearth? How much of a space do you want to heat?
xSpecBx
Member
I have a lennox prefab as well that I recently put a quadra fire classic bay 1200 pellet stove insert into. From everything I was told you cannot put a wood burning insert into a prefab.
For the classic bay, the fireplace needed to be tested to UL 127 (which mine was and I believe yours is as well - I would double check the installation manual about that). Much of the internals from the fireplace were removed, the floor was cutout and a quadra fire floor protector was put down. I also had to have a 4" stainless steel liner run up the metal prefab chimney. As stated above, if you want to put in a wood stove you may need to put in a free-standing unit.
I would look through the installation manuals for both your pre-fab fireplace as well as any prospective inserts as they will tell you what you need to meet for installation into a pre-fab fireplace.
For the classic bay, the fireplace needed to be tested to UL 127 (which mine was and I believe yours is as well - I would double check the installation manual about that). Much of the internals from the fireplace were removed, the floor was cutout and a quadra fire floor protector was put down. I also had to have a 4" stainless steel liner run up the metal prefab chimney. As stated above, if you want to put in a wood stove you may need to put in a free-standing unit.
I would look through the installation manuals for both your pre-fab fireplace as well as any prospective inserts as they will tell you what you need to meet for installation into a pre-fab fireplace.
Do not alter or modify the fireplace or its components under any
circumstances. Any modification or alteration of the fireplace
system, including but not limited to the fireplace, chimney
components and accessories, may void the warranty, listings
and approvals of this system and could result in an unsafe and
potentially dangerous installation.
.DO NOT use a fireplace insert or any other
product not specified by the manufacturer
of this Superior appliance for use with this
fireplace. All gas log sets must be operated
with the damper clamped open
These are quotes from the installation manual for your fireplace
And here is the other side of the argument if superior says do not put an insert in this unit i don't see how you can do it and still comply with all manufactures instructions as required by code.
circumstances. Any modification or alteration of the fireplace
system, including but not limited to the fireplace, chimney
components and accessories, may void the warranty, listings
and approvals of this system and could result in an unsafe and
potentially dangerous installation.
.DO NOT use a fireplace insert or any other
product not specified by the manufacturer
of this Superior appliance for use with this
fireplace. All gas log sets must be operated
with the damper clamped open
These are quotes from the installation manual for your fireplace
And here is the other side of the argument if superior says do not put an insert in this unit i don't see how you can do it and still comply with all manufactures instructions as required by code.
xSpecBx
Member
The quadra fire installation manual says the insert is tested to be installed as a built in and can be installed in a prefab as long as the pre fab was tested to UL 127. If the prefab is tested to UL 127 and the quadra fire install manual is followed for installation of the insert how is that a problem?
IIRC when the stove manual lists a variance from code, the manual trumps code. This is the way it is with clearances, correct?
Because code says you need to meet all manufactures instructions and clearly superiors instructions say you cant do it. And to my knowledge there is no ul testing procedure for an insert in a zeroclearnce fireplace so there is no way to override the ul listing of the zero clearance unit. Now if you check with your local authority with juristiction and your insurance company and get approval in writing you should be ok
Yes but which stove manual do you go by if manufacturers instructions trump all why would the zc instructions not trump the inserts instructions?
I have no desire to debate this with you again beegreen we disagree and that wont change i just feel i need to voice the other side of the argument when it is brought up because there are valid arguments on both sides and someone considering it needs to hear both so they can make an informed decision and check with the right people for approval.
xSpecBx
Member
There is no need to make this point with every single insert -> ZC posting which is what is happening. Instead of acting like the sky is going to fall just recommend that the OP get prior approval from the inspecting authority and let it go. Seriously, in 7+ yrs on Hearth.com I have not heard of a failure for this type of installation. If I had I would be waiving a red flag too.
I will not let it go when In my professional opinion it is against code and there are possible safety issues with this type of install. Why should i not reply with my concerns and those of many other professionals when something that could be a potential problem is brought up? I don't see why it is ok for you to say everything is fine and not ok for me to say it is not when i have a strong argument against it and i have yet to see a ul listing that says anything on the issue. If you can find me an approved standard by which this type of install is approved and it has the authority to override the original instructions i will gladly not make the argument any more but to my knowledge that does not exist at this point.
I can't take as pedantic stance because I lack any claims of issues with the thousands of installations that are safely running. The CSIA argument provided to me was weak and is countered by at least one major stove company providing a specific list of acceptable fireplaces. Code is a guideline. As with any code decision it is always strongly suggested to get prior approval. That is the final say.
Like i have said many times before If you can get written approval by the local authority and your insurance company you should be ok but I don't see how it is responsible in any way to not address both viewpoints. And you always say that csia only opposes it due to liabilty issues why do you think there are liability issues? It is because of the potential code violations, unsubstantiated testing and potential safety issues. I as a pro am not willing to take on the liability and i feel that homeowners should be informed about the liability issues as well. I honestly can see your side of the argument I dont see why you cant acknowledge that there are valid concerns.
I appreciate your concern for safety. We're on the same side. There are lots of valid concerns. I never recommend an insert to go in a ZC fireplace that does not have the the stove mfg. expressed written approval. They would not do that if there was a liability issue. No one here recommends installing an older insert in a ZC unit either, nor are major modifications accepted. These issues have been covered in dozens of threads already. BB has expressed concern about the stove weight. Though I can not recall ever seeing this be an issue I certainly acknowledge the concern. But note that he is not pouncing on every ZC thread with a warning either.
The only concern that CSIA responded with is that some manuals do not specify which brands of fireplaces are approved by the insert mfg.. Fair enough, let's encourage the stove mfgs that aren't specific to be more so and recommend the companies that are specific. There are some very cheap ZCs out there that I wouldn't feel safe burning in, never mind putting an insert into.
The only concern that CSIA responded with is that some manuals do not specify which brands of fireplaces are approved by the insert mfg.. Fair enough, let's encourage the stove mfgs that aren't specific to be more so and recommend the companies that are specific. There are some very cheap ZCs out there that I wouldn't feel safe burning in, never mind putting an insert into.
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Fair enough but i will continue to voice the concerns when this subject is brought up and i will say as i usually do that this is one side of the argument and you need to make your own decision. I would encourage any stove manufacturer that wants to do it to put their stove in specific zc units with the blessing of those companies and have them tested to ul-127 as a zero clearance unit. Then list it as such with those specific models not just blanket brand approval. Also i have a rel problem with the instructions saying that it is ok to direct connect into a zc chimney many of which are not rated to 2100 degrees. I know we are on the same side we just disagree on this point
What insert says to connect directly to the chimney? All that I can recall say a SS liner is required.
It calls for a continuous liner. What part of this is unclear?
The fireplace insert must be installed with a continuous chimney liner of 6” diameter extending from the fireplace insert to the top of the chimney.
The fireplace insert must be installed with a continuous chimney liner of 6” diameter extending from the fireplace insert to the top of the chimney.
haha yeah i honestly dont know why direct connects are still allowed by code here but they are i wont do them but they are to code
Grisu
Minister of Fire
That's a low height. Just to make sure: Has it been measured from the hearth? If you only want a supplemental heater the Quadrafire Yosemite should work as rear-vented stove. Another would be the Regency H2000 hearth heater but that would require a hearth extension.
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