Tax Credit is a "Washout"

[Rob From Wisconsin]

Am I the only one who has noticed that the price of most stoves has gone up
25-30% since last year??

So much for savings.........

 

[webbie]

Wow, I really doubt that. Materials (base metals) have come down in price. I saw one person post Harman prices and they were lower.

List prices almost never rise by over 5% in a year...if that.

 

[SolarAndWood]

In the end, economics always seem to trump the best intended legislation.

 

[STOVEGUY11]

Last season we saw jumps from all our manufactures, but no more than 7%. From what I've seen so far for this coming season prices are staying the same.

 

[webbie]

I just looked at Woodstock and they are the same or lower - when discounts are figured in - before the credits.

Times are a bit tough in the stove biz. I would expect that the dealers cost for most stoves will stay the same or go down. Prices did rise last year because manufacturers were buying steel at high prices (from 2007) and also their capacities were stretched - that cost more money in overtime and other costs.

Taking a quick look around at "net" brands, I don't see a big price increase.....although I see big differences between one vendor and another.

 

[Rob From Wisconsin]

I just looked at Woodstock and they are the same or lower - when discounts are figured in - before the credits.

Times are a bit tough in the stove biz. I would expect that the dealers cost for most stoves will stay the same or go down. Prices did rise last year because manufacturers were buying steel at high prices (from 2007) and also their capacities were stretched - that cost more money in overtime and other costs.

Taking a quick look around at "net" brands, I don't see a big price increase.....although I see big differences between one vendor and another.

Maybe that's what I'm seeing - some brands seem to have gone up quite a bit...and maybe it was late
last year that it occured, and I wasn't paying attention.

It just seems like stoves that were selling for $1200 last year are now selling for $1500+

 

[CrappieKeith]

From the folks we buy our steel from the prices are going up for us.So I'd imagine that everyone elses are too.

This EPA credit is a carrot to get you to burn a wood appliance anyway.
Carrots can be good ,especially if it leads you to go away from spending so much cash on heating with liquid fuels.
Energy Star has always been there leading folks to condensing furnaces that are around 92 or 95% efficient.
It's great to see them leading folks to bio mass.

 

[wendell]

Does the Yukon qualify for the credit?

 

[CrappieKeith]

There is no test for furnaces as of yet.
We are waiting for one.
We do have a sale running right now though.

I like to point out that our furnaces normally pay for themselves within the 1st 2 years of operation and last near 30 years or better.
When you have a 3000 s/f home an owner hitting it twice a day with wood should see 100K back in his pocket over that span.
In 12 years I've netted out 30,000$ so I know what they can do.
Getting super long burn times on half of the wood most other furnaces use is a great thing.

 

[jzr1]

I just bought a PE t5 for 1874. Not sure how that compares to the shops price last year.

 

[DiscoInferno]

Last fall I bought a Napoleon 1100CP from Zoobler. Their nominal advertised price was $1459, which included "free" shipping. Using their bidding system (which I don't think exists any more) I wound up paying $1050. Checking today's price, its retail price is still $1459, but if you add it to your cart or login with a "wholesale" account you find the real price is $1021. The catch is that now shipping is not included/free, and looks to be as low as $50 on the west coast to about $225 to the upper midwest and $250 to the mid-atlantic. So depending on how you score things and where you live, the price has either stayed the same, dropped slightly, or gone up over 20%.

 

[onesojourner]

after the tax credit my nordic should be in the mid 900s. that's with local taxes ect. I have not seen any reviews that some one paid less than 1k for one of these.

 

[karl]

In the end, economics always seem to trump the best intended legislation.

The same thing happens when they increase student loans and pell grants. tuition goes up. And people wonder why I say the solution to the healthcare crisis is to ban health insurance.

 

[johnnywarm]

Wow, I really doubt that. Materials (base metals) have come down in price. I saw one person post Harman prices and they were lower.

List prices almost never rise by over 5% in a year...if that.

Craig

Is the tax credit 30% of the cost of the stove??? I did get a new cash & carry F500 for 1849,Thats 650 less then this time last year.

Thanks John

 

[SolarAndWood]

In the end, economics always seem to trump the best intended legislation.

The same thing happens when they increase student loans and pell grants. tuition goes up. And people wonder why I say the solution to the healthcare crisis is to ban health insurance.

For the brands/models that are in high demand and tight supply anyway, there is no way that the dealers are going to leave all of the 30% on the table for the consumer. Even if its not reflected in the list price, it is highly unlikely that the actual selling prices aren't affected.

I'll save my healthcare thoughts for the ash can.

 

[DiscoInferno]

It is a disadvantage (to the end consumer) of any dealer-based system: the lack of price transparency makes it harder to track price changes over time. For companies that sell direct or via internet retailers, I think the prices are not just lower but more stable as well and there is less ability to try to recoup things like the tax credit. (Obviously dealers have advantages also.)

 

[goldfishcastle]

after the tax credit my nordic should be in the mid 900s. that's with local taxes ect. I have not seen any reviews that some one paid less than 1k for one of these.

My dealer has Jotul Nordic listed at $1080, he's running a 10% off sale, he has one enamel left from last years inventory screw ups that he's offering for $100 extra, then there's the fed credit and my state has a credit, we're having it installed, so stove, piping, labor will be $620 after credits

 

[Dix]

after the tax credit my nordic should be in the mid 900s. that's with local taxes ect. I have not seen any reviews that some one paid less than 1k for one of these.

My dealer has Jotul Nordic listed at $1080, he's running a 10% off sale, he has one enamel left from last years inventory screw ups that he's offering for $100 extra, then there's the fed credit and my state has a credit, we're having it installed, so stove, piping, labor will be $620 after credits

You keep smilin' all the way to the bank :coolsmile:

 

[stoveguy2esw]

From the folks we buy our steel from the prices are going up for us.So I'd imagine that everyone elses are too.

This EPA credit is a carrot to get you to burn a wood appliance anyway.
Carrots can be good ,especially if it leads you to go away from spending so much cash on heating with liquid fuels.
Energy Star has always been there leading folks to condensing furnaces that are around 92 or 95% efficient.
It's great to see them leading folks to bio mass.

keith is right , steel prices have been getting higher , though they seemed to have leveled off somewhat as of late. look at it this way , if the government credit wasnt there the stoves would still be athe prices they are at, so even as a "wash" from years prior , its cheaper than it would be without the credit. AND you will save money when compared to foriegn oil, plus buying wood(if you arent cutting your own) puts money back in the LOCAL economy , not sending it overseas to people who dont really seem to like us these days. buying pellets is the same deal , literally all pellets sold in north america are produced here i have not seen evidence of foriegn interests buying pellet mills, pellet mills in america and canada help in the "import / export" balance as we export 100% more than we import ,these mills supply all north american products. that in itself should be incentive along with the initial savings. i think its a great program on a number of levels ,(then again i work in the industry so im actually a bit biased) so dont take my word for it , look back at older posts from people who have saved money heating with wood/pellet/biomass over oil.


BTW keith i looked at your site , nice looking units bro.

 

[burr]

On these tax credits; is this program similar to the cash for clunker deal (without the trade-in), where the credit is taken directly off the selling price of the stove ? or a tax deduction type credit where the savings is not direct to the buyer at the showroom out of pocket.

 

[branchburner]

It is a credit (not a deduction) off your income tax liability when you file with the IRS. It applies to a variety of energy-saving products as well as to biomass stoves.
But if you are running an old smoke dragon, it is essentially cash for your clunker!

 

[blades]

please note that as a tax credit, you will only recoup on it if you normally end up paying additional in. If you are like myself that breaks about even before the credit, it will not reduce the cost of the unit as you have nothing or very little to use the credit against. It is not a cash back system. It is explained in the stickies at the beginning of the forum.

 

[wendell]

please note that as a tax credit, you will only recoup on it if you normally end up paying additional in. If you are like myself that breaks about even before the credit, it will not reduce the cost of the unit as you have nothing or very little to use the credit against. It is not a cash back system. It is explained in the stickies at the beginning of the forum.

Unless this credit is completely different than every other one, this is not true. A credit is the same as money you pay so if you are withholding the correct amount, you will get a refund.

 

[RustyShackleford]

please note that as a tax credit, you will only recoup on it if you normally end up paying additional in. If you are like myself that breaks about even before the credit, it will not reduce the cost of the unit as you have nothing or very little to use the credit against. It is not a cash back system. It is explained in the stickies at the beginning of the forum.

Unless this credit is completely different than every other one, this is not true. A credit is the same as money you pay so if you are withholding the correct amount, you will get a refund.

Yeah, this is absurd - and there's no mention of any such thing in the sticky.

Maybe what's he's saying is that if your total tax liability goes negative, i.e. the credit is more than
your total tax liability was - which would probably only be the case if you were unemployed. Even
then, I suspect you could carryover the credit ...

 

[Flatbedford]

But if you are running an old smoke dragon, it is essentially cash for your clunker!

Except you get to keep the smoke dragon. Mine's an outdoor fireplace now. At least until it rusts away.