Testing heat output on pellets

[dlavigne7324]

today I purchased a hand held heat reading gun what the proper way to test it ? Should I let the stove run for for a bit ?? A certain number setting ? I have a harman p35i . Any insight would be greatly appreciated .

 

[BigJohnfromCT]

There are some postings on the subject. If the gun is IR you'll need to be careful where to point it. From the other posts sounds like they're real sensitive. I installed a hardwired thermocouple on my stove, it is situated right in the middle of the hot air vent.

 

[Bob E]

I like to pick a feed rate, usually about in the middle of the range. Let the stove completely warm up using your usually settings. Then dial in the combustion air to get the best heat for that particular pellet. Usually the settings won't be much different between pellets. Keep the adjustments small and give the stove at least a half hour or so to heat up or cool down between changes. To be completely thorough you should probably do this on all feed rate settings, but that will probably make room temperatures uncomfortable.
I monitor the room air with a simple thermometer. Room fan speed and room temperature can play a roll in the final reading. Also with my OAK hooked up I've noticed large outside temperature swings can make a difference even before room temperatures start to change.

 

[mepellet]

You will likely see the same air discharge temp with all pellets when set to the same settings. The esp maintains a set temp based on the temp dial..... You have a "smart stove."

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

today I purchased a hand held heat reading gun what the proper way to test it ? Should I let the stove run for for a bit ?? A certain number setting ? I have a harman p35i . Any insight would be greatly appreciated .

That'll be fun on that Harman since it normally runs temperature differential mode.

You might want to read this link https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/how-your-harman-works-what-your-manual-doesnt-tell-you.91030/

 

[mepellet]

I've argued this many times. I for one do not have the equipment to properly measure temperatures. But many do and when asked to do their testing and report back, they never seemed to come back with data.....
Hmmmmmm

 

[F4jock]

I've argued this many times. I for one do not have the equipment to properly measure temperatures. But many do and when asked to do their testing and report back, they never seemed to come back with data.....
Hmmmmmm

As I see it here's the problem with this. If you expect consistency it ain't gonna happen. Due to the seasonal variation among pellets and the intraseasonal variation in raw materials you MIGHT be able to say this pellet is better than this one at given time but ton-to-ton who knows?

 

[mepellet]

As I see it here's the problem with this. If you expect consistency it ain't gonna happen. Due to the seasonal variation among pellets and the intraseasonal variation in raw materials you MIGHT be able to say this pellet is better than this one at given time but ton-to-ton who knows?

What stove model do you have?

 

[F4jock]

What stove model do you have?

Harman Accentra insert but I'm basing my statement on not only my experience but what I've read here re rebagging, regional manufacture and year-to-year performance.

 

[mepellet]

Have you tested and documented temperatures of the room air discharge with the proper equipment and consistent settings?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Harman Accentra insert but I'm basing my statement on not only my experience but what I've read here re rebagging, regional manufacture and year-to-year petformance.

Yes there is more than a little variance between this years and last years etc... , sometimes it really depends upon the makers control over the their raw materials.

This https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/60581/ is a run down at one point in time using a consistent method for testing and done by one person who loves to clean his pellet eater.

 

[mepellet]

Yes there is more than a little variance between this years and last years etc... , sometimes it really depends upon the makers control over the their raw materials.

This https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/60581/ is a run down at one point in time using a consistent method for testing and done by one person who loves to clean his pellet eater.

F4Jock, keep in mind that jtakeman does not have a Harman.

 

[F4jock]

Have you tested and documented temperatures of the room air discharge with the proper equipment and consistent settings?

No. I have a heating appliance not a science experiment. While I am an engineer (ME. ChE) I can read and accept the rational and logical conclusions of my fellow pellet users without having to replicate their trials or verify their observations and data. Fact: Pellet wood sources vary over unpredictable periods of time. Fact: Different wood types have different BTU output. Fact: Pellet mills bag for many different labels. Fact: Pellet mills have internal batch-to-batch production variations. Conclusion: Any measurement of pellet heat output is, while indicative of the efficiency of performance of a given production lot, relatively useless in predicting consistency of the product over time. Thus, unless you can test a representative sample of a given lot and be assured of obtaining your supply from that same lot you're not assured that the heat output will be comparable lot-to-lot much less year-to-year. But hey, if you're enjoying the process . . . .

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

No. I have a heating appliance not a science experiment. While I am an engineer (ME. ChE) I can read and accept the rational and logical conclusions of my fellow pellet users without having to replicate their trials or verify their observations and data. Fact: Pellet wood sources vary over unpredictable periods of time. Fact: Different wood types have different BTU output. Fact: Pellet mills bag for many different labels. Fact: Pellet mills have internal batch-to-batch production variations. Conclusion: Any measurement of pellet heat output is, while indicative of the efficiency of performance of a given production lot, relatively useless in predicting consistency of the product over time. Thus, unless you can test a representative sample of a given lot and be assured of obtaining your supply from that same lot you're not assured that the heat output will be comparable lot-to-lot much less year-to-year. But hey, if you're enjoying the process . . . .

Just remember that some pellet makers have full control and take great pains to have consistency all that needs to be said was said by jtakeman in the first post in his thread. A few even achieve consistency.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

However using a Harman requires that you pay attention to how you conduct the test and simply pointing an IR temperature gun at the right spot ain't going to tell much, there are other stoves out there that provide a damn near identical output air temperature over their entire firing range.

 

[mepellet]

Fact: Pellet wood sources vary over unpredictable periods of time.

Totally agree. Never disputed this.

Fact: Different wood types have different BTU output.

Totally agree. Never disputed this. Interesting to note though that once compressed to the same density, ask wood species are relatively the same BTUs.

Fact: Pellet mills bag for many different labels.

Totally agree. Never disputed this.

Fact: Pellet mills have internal batch-to-batch production variations.

Totally agree. Never disputed this.

Conclusion: Any measurement of pellet heat output is, while indicative of the efficiency of performance of a given production lot, relatively useless in predicting consistency of the product over time. Thus, unless you can test a representative sample of a given lot and be assured of obtaining your supply from that same lot you're not assured that the heat output will be comparable lot-to-lot much less year-to-year.

you will use less pellets with high btu content yes. But when compared in $/btu you quickly see that you save money with the cheaper pellets.

 

[mepellet]

However using a Harman requires that you pay attention to how you conduct the test and simply pointing an IR temperature gun at the right spot ain't going to tell much, there are other stoves out there that provide a damn near identical output air temperature over their entire firing range.

Good point.

 

[F4jock]

However using a Harman requires that you pay attention to how you conduct the test and simply pointing an IR temperature gun at the right spot ain't going to tell much, there are other stoves out there that provide a damn near identical output air temperature over their entire firing range.

Which Harman doesn't. At least not in Room Temp. I judge my pellet by daily consumption over time, consistency of supply and ash generated / cleaning frequency. So far the best I've hit in those respects are Lignetics.

 

[F4jock]

Totally agree. Never disputed this.

Totally agree. Never disputed this. Interesting to note though that once compressed to the same density, ask wood species are relatively the same BTUs.

Totally agree. Never disputed this.

Totally agree. Never disputed this.
you will use less pellets with high btu content yes. But when compared in $/btu you quickly see that you save money with the cheaper pellets.

Yeah but if I have to clean every week, and barely make it that far as I did with PA Pellets or GS I'd rather pay a few bucks more a ton. With Lignetics I got for $235 a ton I've gone three weeks between cleanings and judging from the condition of the stove could have gone more. Can you say the same for cheaper pellets? Can you GET cheaper pellets? I haven't been able to in NEPA, even at Big Boxes.

 

[BrotherBart]

Fact: Different wood types have different BTU output.

A Chem E outta know that it is all 8600 BTU per pound. Just how fast or how slow it breaks down and let's then go is the difference.

 

[mepellet]

I have gone three weeks burning 24/7 in room temp manual with $197/ton pellets bought at Walmart. I know I could have gone longer without a problem too. But I love my stove and hate to abuse it.

 

[F4jock]

A Chem E outta know that it is all 8600 BTU per pound. Just how fast or how slow it breaks down and let's then go is the difference.

Actually not quite true. Hardwoods vary about +/- 600 BTU per pound depending.

 

[F4jock]

I have gone three weeks burning 24/7 in room temp manual with $197/ton pellets bought at Walmart. I know I could have gone longer without a problem too. But I love my stove and hate to abuse it.

I envy you the price. Around here not very much variation even at the "Wall."

 

[BrotherBart]

Actually not quite true. Hardwoods vary about +/- 600 BTU per pound depending.

Support for that please?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I once went 26 bags 30+ days straight on grunge burn in a bucket of parts stove burning $199/ton delivered pellets, just couldn't take the mess I saw in the window so I shut it down and cleaned the pour abused parts collection.