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The cheese they try to put in stove now

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by summit, May 12, 2009.

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  1. nojo

    nojo New Member

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    I just got an englander 30 and was thinknig about the baffle since i got it.

    What about putting a stainless plate under the ceramic fiber refractory baffle plates? How would this effect the baffles ability to reflect heat and ignite the gasses?

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  2. sauer

    sauer New Member

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    I did this stainless baffle idea when I rebuilt my mainsfield. seem to work just fine. I used 10 ga with the ceramic wool blanket.
  3. Bigg_Redd

    Bigg_Redd Minister of Fire

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    Yes, yes we do.
  4. Bigg_Redd

    Bigg_Redd Minister of Fire

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    Pacific Energy
  5. madrone

    madrone Minister of Fire

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    Sure, if you don't mind re-welding it from time to time.
  6. Bigg_Redd

    Bigg_Redd Minister of Fire

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    I'll take my chances with a 1 in 10,000 defect in construction over a 1 in 1 design flaw. Us PE owners, the elite, are happy for you fiber baffle guys gingerly loading your stoves every day, and clearly we are a little jealous. Thanks for rubbing it in.
  7. raybonz

    raybonz Minister of Fire

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    Could you please elaborate as to why you despise this stove? While I agree it can be a pain in the butt at times overall it performs well and is very efficient.. Back in 1988 epa stoves were a relatively new thing and there were some growing pains however it does heat my home 24/7.. I do wish the windows stayed cleaner but they didn't do the air wash thing back then.. I have learned the ins and outs of this stove and dry wood is very important to keep trouble at bay.. The cost of ownership is extremely low and for me that's a huge plus..
    Those PE stoves look real nice and seem better built to protect the fragile refractory mat'l they use however most do not use this approach and unfortunately the owners are stuck with regular repairs.. Cast iron plates protect the stove and seem to last forever unlike firebricks which deteriate..
    I am aware of many of these stoves are still in operation and they too have told me they never need parts.. I would gladly pay extra for a stove that does not require parts on a regular basis..

    Ray
  8. Bigg_Redd

    Bigg_Redd Minister of Fire

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    VC/DW stoves are overpriced junk. I'm aware that there were times when they made good stoves. Maybe you have one of those.
  9. raybonz

    raybonz Minister of Fire

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    I paid $600.00 -$650.00 back in 1988 and that included all the accessories (a special they were running back then) so I think I did very well.. This stove has no refractory materials at all and that is the reason it has been so long lasting.. The only advantage I can see with those fragile materials is they probably heat a little faster so a little bit less pollution on start-up but I run 24/7 so not a factor for me..

    Ray
  10. cycloxer

    cycloxer New Member

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    This is one of the big reasons I bought a Jotul Castine. The entire inside of the firebox is cast iron. The upper baffle is stainless. There isn't even any exposed firebrick as on the larger Oslo. I was impressed with the design.
  11. summit

    summit Minister of Fire

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    suprised to see my thread still going after all this time...
  12. raybonz

    raybonz Minister of Fire

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    That truly is impressive! Obviously there is no good reason other than cost control and perhaps future part sales to make these newer stoves so fragile.. Thanx for the good news! Both PE and Jotul seem to be top notch products.. :)

    Ray
  13. laynes69

    laynes69 Minister of Fire

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    I pulled my baffle out of my wood furnace and it was very heavy. I think its got 4 layers. Its stainless steel and has an insulation blanket on top. Don't think I will have to worry about destroying it. I've hit the burn tubes on accident more than the baffle. For some reason when I load for the night, I can never load the wood level. It always goes uphill. I know my baffle takes some heat.
  14. raybonz

    raybonz Minister of Fire

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    I checked out your furnace video and it sure does burn clean unlike the older generation wood furnaces.. How many cords do you burn per yr? Do you also have an oil or gas backup system?

    Ray
  15. laynes69

    laynes69 Minister of Fire

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    I've burnt a little over 3 cords so far. We started burning on and off since the beginning of october. Its less wood than my old woodfurnace. I have a propane furnace its tied into. We have used about 28 gallons of propane since the beginning of winter. It does burn alot cleaner than the old furnace. This is my first year with the unit, and I really like it. I'm burning less than optimum wood now that would burn fine in the old unit, and It doesn't cut it. I need to get a year or 2 ahead on wood.
  16. raybonz

    raybonz Minister of Fire

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    Thinking that if you burn clean dry hardwood plus burning the smoke you should use far less wood much like an epa wood stove..

    Ray
  17. laynes69

    laynes69 Minister of Fire

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    Yup. Considering this firebox is a 3.5 cu ft and the old one was 6+. Its basically a EPA stove with a secondary heat exchanger and a jacket around it.
  18. tradergordo

    tradergordo Minister of Fire

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    I think in the future I will try to avoid the "cheese" :) The way I see it, these companies discovered this material with some very excellent properties, and they decided to go with it, making their customers the guinea pigs. Vermont castings used to claim this stuff would last forever, it was also covered under the "lifetime" warranty. Then the complaints started pouring in, pictures in this forum started showing up where people had poked holes through it accidentally, and more pictures of chips/flakes falling off of the material as it gets thinner each year. Then the company goes bankrupt and voids all the so called lifetime warranties. But the thing is, they are still using this material. In the case of VC stoves (Dutchwest and others) the material is NOT in the firebox, it isn't even visible at all unless you remove the flue and look down inside, its in the rear combustion chambers. Last I checked, replacing it was $400 for parts alone, and involves completely disassembling the stove - its almost like the stoves are disposable unless someone comes up with a good alternative material replacement solution.
  19. REF1

    REF1 Feeling the Heat

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    Great thread. I found out the hard way with my Homestead. Because the roof of the firebox is slanted toward the back, your eye view of the loading capability is skewed and you think your horizontal placement to the back is the same as the front of the box. BANG. Can't tell you how many times I have hit the secondary tubes or the baffle. Then one day I saw a couple of dents in the baffle. Hit me what this stuff is. Even being as careful as possible, like BB says, you move stuff around and sooner or later you are going to hit the baffle with a split or your poker. And yeah, paying $2800 for a stove that can crumble on the inside in a year or two? Unacceptable. Man, am I glad to have my Elm now.
  20. 70marlin

    70marlin New Member

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    My Hearth stone tribute non cat. has 5yrs. 24/7 during the winter on the stock light weight pannel and yes mine glows bright red! just use your head when loading it. They tuck it up and out of the way on my stove but you still can hit it.
  21. oldspark

    oldspark Guest

    I paid 1,000 dollars for my stove in 1980 and have done nothing to it what so ever, only source of heat for 30 years and no maintenance to it what so ever except stove black, I spose this is too much to ask for now, I have a new PE coming this week because of the posts on this site and what I could read, I figured it was as good as it gets.
  22. rottiman

    rottiman Minister of Fire

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    My older Regency R-3's have the steel plate with the blanket. just replaced the one which was manufactured in 1992. Used 3/8" steel armor plate (military issue) and a new blanket. Guarenteed not to gouge, mark or fall apart if you touch it. Got 18 years x 5 cord a year use out of the first one. I'll probably be fertilizer before the new one wears out................................
  23. summit

    summit Minister of Fire

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    wow, I started this thread a while ago, good to see it shaking off the dust and still tickin!...

    REF1: you have seen exactly wehat I'm talkin about: I really don't like selling anyone on a homestead for this reason: and to replace a baffle in a homestead? either pull the top off, or cut it in 1/2 and piece it in. All the Hearthstones have baflles like that now (cept fo the phoenix, I think, but its been a couple yrs since we sold one of those)... Too many stoves are gettin' this way, and I for one don't dig it. Sure, i know it helps them to achieve lower emissions, etc: but being "careful loading wood into the stove" is not in my vocabulary, unless we're talking slammin' logs the the ceramic glass...

    rottiman: good job w/ the plate steel!! nice find! but, be forewarned. The caveat to what you did is a modification to the stove as it was tested, and should there ever be a problem w/ the stove they can say you changed it beyond what the the stove was designed to have, and give plausible denial to a claim. Now, you and I both know you have done nothing to hurt the unit, and probably beefed up its integrity, but just to give you a heads up.
  24. nojo

    nojo New Member

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    Im going to try to get some 1/4 stainless plate and put it ontop of the burntubes on my englander 30 and put the refractory ontop of that. I hit the tubes and refractory all the time loading wood. Its the same deal as described about the hearthstone. Its lower in the back and you cant really see in there too well when you loading her up.
  25. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    The first year that I burned in the 30-NC I kept smacking the fiber board and tubes and figured that they wouldn't last through the second season. After that I quit trying to stack the thing all the way to the roof, threw away the poker and now I am finishing off season four and they boards look like they have another four years in them. And who knows how many more seasons the SS tubes will last.

    I went to loading just to the top of the firebricks and leaving combustion space above them and still get the same burn times and heat. And don't pound the crap out of the fiber board or the burn tubes. And use less wood.
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