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The Garn has arrived!

Post in 'The Boiler Room - Wood Boilers and Furnaces' started by RowCropRenegade, Jul 18, 2009.

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  1. Bugzapper

    Bugzapper New Member

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    Holy sh**! That thing is BIG! Folks put that beast in their basemements? You are doing a great job. Thanks for the pix. (I too have a corn binder although a bit smaller than yours. A 240 Utility.)

    JB

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  2. Jim K in PA

    Jim K in PA Minister of Fire

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    You should be fine. I have T-111 in my GARN room, but I have a lot of heat loss up through the ceiling. I have a storage area above. Over the GARN I have R50 in FG batts.

    Awesome! You can't have too many tractors IMO . . . :coolsmile:

    I tied mine directly to the grounding rod for my garage electrical panel. The grounding rod happened to be right next to where I set the GARN, so I only needed about 3 feet of #2 wire to tie it in. I used one of the electrical element enclosure lugs for the GARN side connection. There are some pics of this on my site.

    Is it filled yet???
  3. RowCropRenegade

    RowCropRenegade Feeling the Heat

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    Jim,

    It's still sitting on the trailer in the barn. By the end of the day today, I should be ready to put her in. I figure I'm at least a month away from firing it up. Obsessing over every little detail has slowed me down, but in the long run I think I'll be happy for being so picky.

    By the end of the day today I should be ready for the spray foam insulation. Putting in nailers for the sheet metal, cutting hole for manhole, filling in old window hole with siding and installing that heavy 2 hour fire rated door. Electrician coming over to wire up my bin, he's going to look at garn room too.

    Time to get started, so cold already. Burned a burn barrel all day yesterday to keep me warm.

    Reed
  4. Tattooz

    Tattooz New Member

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    Access to the top will be important, also we made a collar so we could spray in the blown glass deep around it !
    My wish list of things I wish I had done.
    1) Some kind of water supply to the top so I did not have to drag out the hoses when she needs a little water added.

    Sorry about the crappy photos!

    Attached Files:

  5. RowCropRenegade

    RowCropRenegade Feeling the Heat

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    tatooz, thankyou. The collar is a good idea. I'm installing the water line and doing like Jim K did. Although, it will be the last thing I do. I snapped some photos about 10 mins ago.

    Had to build mini walls and scab recycled siding back on. Never painted when it was 40 before, but it looked like total hell. I'm going to silicon the joints where old wood meets new. I spent alot of time cutting out rotten wood and squaring it up. Stole wood from backside, garn slides in through there anyway. Ordered sheet metal for the room today. Good prices. Running electric in metal conduit over the sheet metal.

    The wood piles were previously moved because of that bin you see in background. 5 cords ash.

    One other wacky thing popped into my mind. You radiant specialists this question would be directed at. We are harvesting wet crops this year. The bins in the background have aeration fans on them. Sitting on a huge thermal mass of concrete. In theory, if I could heat those pads to 100 degrees and turn on the fan, I could dry crops with my Garn. Wood usage isn't a concern. Drying soybeans in 40 degree weather is next to impossible. It would be very possible to tear up floor, insulate, pour a 4 inch layer of concrete with big tubing and it wouldnt be under weight either. Bin floors have stands that hold the floor up.

    Attached Files:

  6. RowCropRenegade

    RowCropRenegade Feeling the Heat

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    Framing is complete. Time for spray foam insulation. Here is the product i'm using. Soy based, had to choose it over the other. open cell. http://www.energytitesprayfoam.com/ET-Pro-SEAL-Docpage.html. very comparable to Icyene.

    im still planning on wrapping the garn with some type of rockwool. filling in structure with fiberglass then sheetmetal. should i spray in walls that surround the garn? I'm not spraying in 5x5 of flue. I guess my concern is melting the foam. If the garn's water is 205, and there is at least 8 inches of insulation around tank, then sheet metal, is there a chance of melting the foam?
  7. hedge wood

    hedge wood New Member

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    I used closed cell foam and sprayed the complete Garn except the chimney seems to be working well. I also had the Garn barn which is 12 feet wide by 22 feet long spray foamed with 4 inches of foam also. I need to get my heat exchangers insulated and the piping that is behind the Garn insulated as these make it very warm in the Garn barn. My Garn barn is also in a building like yours is. I don't like fiberglass insulation in out building as mice seem to love to make condos in it . They don't seem to bother the foam. I am burning 100 percent hedge which is a high btu wood and so far have only seen 180 degree top on the water and that's been with a light load and loading wood every three hours. I have to go back to work Monday so will see how it will work only loading twice a day. I hope you are getting dry weather for harvest. We just got 2.5 inches of rain in the last two day. They did get my beans out before the rain but all of my corn is still in the field. Good luck with the Garn.
  8. RowCropRenegade

    RowCropRenegade Feeling the Heat

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    Finished crops on the 1st. Been finishing up all the lose ends til today. Back to work on the garn room. Haven't touched it since late september.

    Wish I could have gone the foam insulation route, but decided to buy a heaterman garn jacket. Plus sheet metal tallied up to 670 bucks. So kinda shot my wad on those cool things.

    So I bought fiberglass for the stick framed areas and will use XPS foam board for perimeter walls. Just glue the board on, double layer for R-25. Do I need a vapor barrier for the external walls?

    Ground is supposed to freeze up good on thursday, I should have sheet metal done by then. Make way for the GARN!

    The other thing that's bothering me is where to put the heat exchanger.

    The primary loop coming out of the garn will be 2". Out of this loop are the secondary loops of 1) 1.25" microflex to house 2) future garage loop 3) future loop for snow melt/hot/tub/hot pressure washer 4) 60x120 machine shed.

    But the only loop that will be in service for 1-3 years will be the house. Do you put a heat exchanger at each secondary loop. Or size a monster heat exchanger at the primary loop?
  9. heaterman

    heaterman Minister of Fire

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    I'm wrestling with that very issue on a job right now. This particular application has a 2000 serving a greenhouse currently heated by iron rads + a hot water Modine and a brand new house with radiant floors. I'm going to go with a separate HX for each to keep the fluid from the two systems isolated from each other. Probably lot's of junk in the greenhouse side that I don't want in the radiant tube side. Using a separate HX will also allow complete isolation of both loads in case the owner only wishes to run one of them at a given time. A person could also use the placement of the HX's to provide priority to the loaf you wish to have the highest temp. In this case it would be the greenhouse as the home will probably heat with 110* water.
  10. hedge wood

    hedge wood New Member

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    Row crop. I hope you had a good harvest. The corn around here never got dry 16.5% was the driest it got. The bushels where good for the dry summer we had ours did 170 average which is good for this dry land area. I used separate heat exchangers for each system. I am heating four different systems so I have four heat exchangers and eight pumps.There is a hole lot of plumbing going on behind my Garn. All most forgot I have one more flat plate and pump that I use to heat my domestic hot water also. We are getting 12 inches of snow today and tonight and it is suppose to get down to -10 tomorrow night. Better go out and put some more wood in the Garn and plug the tractor in . Take care.
  11. RowCropRenegade

    RowCropRenegade Feeling the Heat

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    Hedge, our corn was excellent, test weight is good enough and moisture was 20-25%. Corn was very hard to dry. Had to haul out over a week to make space to finish. Over 200 bpa average over 700 acres. I raised all soybeans, made 55. We are tickled. Picked the right year to install a Garn. Glad you had a good crop. We always say we get to farm another year! Been busy hauling. Getting .70 premium for our non-gmo corn. I'm considering going back to beans again, offering 2.25 premium for these high oil/high protein non-gmo beans.
    Can the same heat exchanger to the DHW too? Where did you put your heat exchangers at? Close to Garn or entry of the building to be heated?

    So a heat exchanger at each loop sounds like the best plan. Heaterman, how do you keep the fluids seperate with different HXs? It all comes from the same boiler right? The primary loop doesn't need a heat exchanger then, if each secondary loop has it's own exchanger?

    I haven't found a decent pipe generating program that's cheap (free) so I might make one out of legos and take a picture.

    Got my sheet metal today, in 40mph wind. Managed to get it all here, undamaged. Spent a hour just getting the plastic to say in place for the garn runway. Will start on sheet metaling Garn enclosure so we can move it in within a couple days. Getting exciting...
  12. heaterman

    heaterman Minister of Fire

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    :lol: Make the piping diagram out of Lego's ......I like that! Tells me you're thinking ahead.

    AFA keeping the system fluid separate, I was referring to the load side of things wherein the Garn would be serving two or more systems that should remain discrete from one another. The Garn side would obviously flow through side A of both HX's In the situation referenced above with the new home/radiant floor and the greenhouse with old iron, we have decided to go with two HX's.

    Did the "Garn sweater" show up yet?
  13. RowCropRenegade

    RowCropRenegade Feeling the Heat

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    Heaterman, they shipping company called around 3 today. It will be here inbetween 8-5, lol. They were pleased to know I have a turnaround for a semi.

    Hung enough sheet metal to be tired of wearing safety glasses. I could slide the Garn in tomorrow but the tractor is tied up. Can't sheet metal much more until I insulate the perimeter walls and install the garage entry door. I'm a slow builder.

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  14. Jim K in PA

    Jim K in PA Minister of Fire

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    Row - looks good. Did you use the tin instead of gypsum for code reasons?

    As to HX layout, I would suggest going with local HXs rather than trying to split the primary into two loops and seperate them with a mongo HX. You may also be able to go without an HX for some of the loads. If your load is not pressurized and reasonably isolated from O2 uptake, then skip the HX and get better heat transfer.

    We're having temps in the low teens with winds 15-30mph. Time for morning and evening burns. It was not going 1-2 days between burns.
  15. RowCropRenegade

    RowCropRenegade Feeling the Heat

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    Trucking company called and said somehow they bungled entering the delivery into the computer, wont arrive til Monday now. This time they narrowed the window from 10-5, lol.

    Jim, I went with the sheet metal because of fire safety, ease of installing in an unsquare building and I thought it would look super nice. Bugs won't like chewing on it either and should hold up against the volume of wood it will see in its life. J Channel takes all the work out of clean edges. The whole project is practice for doing my big barn here in the near future. Everything from the radiant heat, to sheet metal will be very similiar in the big barn.

    Bought insulation for exterior walls today and finished sheet metaling all I could. Plan is for the Garn to make its way inside tomorrow!
  16. hedge wood

    hedge wood New Member

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    Row crop. Looks the Garn barn is coming along nicely. I too like the look of the white steel I lined my shop with it which is 20by60 with a 16 ceiling. My four heat exchangers are behind the Garn and my eight pumps are back there too. I need to figure how to post pictures and post some of my Garn barn. I hope its warmer there than here we are below zero every night and in the teens in the day with 12 inchs of snow on the ground. We have had lots of wind this week also. The Garn is doing a nice job of keeping us warm but we are going threw the wood loading morning before work afternoon after work and evening before bed. Almost forgot my fifth heat exchanger is mounted by the domestic hot water heater.
  17. Jim K in PA

    Jim K in PA Minister of Fire

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    Ah. So the tin is in the wood shed, not the GARN enclosure? Great idea. I used T1-11 sheathing on the inside of my GARN shed. The ceiling and main wall of my GARN enclosure are skinned in gypsum for fire protection. The outer wall has no covering on the inside, as it is all insulation from the outer sheathing to the tank.

    Good luck with the move tomorrow!

    HW - I am up to two burns a day, but shorter burns. I was burning about 2-3 hours once a day to run the tank up from 130-180+. Now I am going to keep it at 140-190. I burn at around 0530-0730, then again at 1830-2030 The cold is not so bad (low teens now), but it's the damned wind that sucks the heat out of my old leaky house. I am tightening it up, but have a ways to go to get the heat loss down.
  18. RowCropRenegade

    RowCropRenegade Feeling the Heat

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    hedge, I'm glad the garn is working out for you. We had some snow here but none accumulated. When it snows around here the drivers down in Cincinnati all of a sudden take a stupid pill. Doesn't bode well for semi drivers like me. It's in the mid teens right now. I have an LP fire place I turn on when it gets down this cold to help the oil boiler. My water temps on the oil boiler are 160. Went out to look just now and my pressure tank is leaking...

    Jim, my house is probably as leaky as yours. The thing I hate most is the very cold floors. I never walk barefoot cause of it. Installing radiant would take care of that. If you look at the 2nd picture above, the wall that has a door at the end of it, is the wood storage area. Will hold 1.5 cords stacked to the ceiling. Then to the right of entry door is another 8ft of space to stack another 1.5 cord. My girlfriends is making fun of me because I'm trying to design a conveyer system to bring the wood to the Garn. I'm expecting my heat load now to be similiar to yours Jim. In the future though, I expect to be at hedges head load level.

    I didn't sleep very well, kept thinking of different tools I needed to gather up to make this move successful. The forklift will get it off the trailer and started into the garn enclosure just fine. However, the gutter on the building will stop me short of getting it in. Bought 1 inch diameter 5 foot long dowel pins to make her roll. Then will use the Jim K tactic of jacking up front with floor jack and using forklift and chain on the other to insert 2 inch foam board. (I cleaned lowes out yesterday)

    Biggest questions: 1) Vapor barrier for exterior walls? (Cedar tongue groove outside siding, 4 inches XPS board insulation, taping seams tyvek tape, vapor barrier? then sheet metal) 2) Back wall insulation? (The flue exit) It's not framed in yet. Going to scroll through Jim's pictures for the thousandth time.

    Thanks again Garners
  19. deerhntr

    deerhntr Member

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    Rowcrop,

    Lookin Good. Hope the move goes well. If you are anything like me, then you can't wait to get that unit fired up.

    Did you put the "Heaterman Jacket" on before the move? That insulation looks real slick. I am finishing up the "ends" insulation on my unit this weekend, and the final plumbing begins on Monday. I hope to strike my first match sometime late this coming week. Will you be able to fire your unit before the end of the year? I hope so.

    Good luck,
  20. Rick Stanley

    Rick Stanley Feeling the Heat

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    Rowcrop,

    You'll probably be done by the time you read this but I thought I'd mention it...........

    I actually arranged for the guys that delivered my garn, to set it in place for me because I'm old, crippled and dumb:)

    Anyway, they brought a big forklift with them and wheeled it off the lowbed, down the paved driveway and right into the building. I had chalk marks on the floor and wall for exactly where I wanted it placed. After they sat it down with the forklift, they still had to move it another 20 feet and place the foamboard insulation under it.

    Four guys with big 6 ft long pry-bars scooted that thing around on the cement floor like it was a cardboard box. They slide it into place (no pipes or wheels) and pryed up one end/corner at a time to place the insulation under it. DONE!! Maybe took half an hour. These garns aren't nearly as hard to move around as they seem to be.

    Anyway, Good Luck!!
  21. RowCropRenegade

    RowCropRenegade Feeling the Heat

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    deerhunter, I'm dying to get it fired up. Your online blog is excellent. I guess I decided hearth to be my online blog. Hope that's acceptable. My goal stands to light a fire by new years. That will depend on availability of parts I need for piping. Tomorrow is blown because of christmas party. I'll follow your progess closely.

    Rick, I've also been following your online blog. Very well done as well. Fun seeing the variation in the projects. I made sure I was well equiped today. The pics are cool but I have some videos with sound I need to learn to upload to youtube.

    Things went according to plan with exception of the garn lifting the front end of the tractor. Required a little backhoe support. I think top holes need to be 1/4 thicker, the bottom fork rails to be continuously boxed in, and pry points along the outside edge rail. I bent a loop with a chain but that's about the extent of the damage. I'm going to go over it and touch it up with some paint. My dad has been a critic of the Garn's moveability. A 3rd center hole beefed up would be his biggest gripe along with the non enclosed forklift holes.

    Here's some pics. will work on those vids.

    Thanks for the support.

    Attached Files:

  22. deerhntr

    deerhntr Member

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    When I lifted mine the first time off the trailer I got some bending on the top rigging holes. After that I used a steel beam as a "Weight Spreader". Worked real nice. There is no doubt the GARN is a big beast, your pop is right. Just not many options when you are storing 2000 gallons of hot water. Still think it is one of the better solutions

    Good luck

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  23. RowCropRenegade

    RowCropRenegade Feeling the Heat

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    Deerhunter,

    None of the tools I had at my disposal could lift from above, like you did, which is ideal for the garn. Betcha made that MFWD squat! What I'm saying is there is always room for improvement on any piece of machinery.

    I did some hunting yesterday, shot some starlings out of the tree. They were eyeballing that freshly untarped Garn. 3 birds, 12 gauge spread shot. I despise starlings.

    Did you hear that AGCO tractors won't be orange anymore?

    Reed
  24. deerhntr

    deerhntr Member

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    Reed,

    I was fortunate, the loader was pretty much at capacity, and yup she was a squattin!

    As for AGCO orange, I bet it won't be green. Speaking of green. I have an old oliver too!. It is a '69 1650, no loader like your's though. I love it. My son and I rebuilt the PTO last winter, it is good as new. They just don't make'em like that anymore.

    Keep on those starlings, but take a deer out of the 28 acre wood lot you have there. Nothing like corn fed venison!
  25. RowCropRenegade

    RowCropRenegade Feeling the Heat

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    I think they are going back to "white" grey on the new AGCOs. . That tractor you have is a popular one. Here's the oli club I joined recently. http://www.buckeyeoliver.org/ My 550 is broke down. Hydraulic pump shaft broken, we think. 750 dollar pump. 40th anniversary for it. Some party. :( It's on the back burner until the Garn is up and running.

    Never hunted a day in my life. I'm good at chasing out 16 point bucks with my atv. Was 5 feet behind one going 50 mph across my field. I seem to be good at hitting them with the semi.

    Heres a couple videos, they are ok. Girlfriend has steady hands at least.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9slyv_oH8g

    http://www.youtube.com/user/speedycarey1#p/a/u/1/1t1In3mX9RI
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