The neighbor's smoke dragon

[woodjack]

Find out your neighbor's email address and send him this link.
He'll probably become member number 10,001.

 

[karl]

Wow. There are three of us with houses all in eye sight of each other and we didn't even know the other one was burning wood until we all had a beer together one night. Two EPA stoves and an old pot belly deal. The pot belly stove guy burns alot of coal.

If you walk between my house and my next door neighbors all you get is that really sweet carmelization smell from our EPA stoves. Another guy over the hill has a cat. Smokes like mad on start up but then nothing.

 

[zionadams]

I think it's only a matter of 3-5 years before you see a nationwide requirement to burn only in EPA compliant wood stoves. The EPA's new rules under the Clean Air Act, which dictate lower permissible particulate matter in the air, have gone in to effect. Most states were not in compliance with the old standards. None may be able to comply with the new standards, even those with vast rural areas. You can only go so far through regulating vehicle emissions. That's why I think it's likely that one of the steps that will be taken is to outlaw all the use of old smoke dragons. I also wouldn't be surprised to see the EPA issue new standards for wood stove manufacturers, stricter than Phase II and requiring yet greater efficiency.

I hope that's not true. All you will get is a lot of law breakers. Here in Utah there are families who only heat with wood stoves and many of them are not catalytic. I can see requiring more emissions control in the smoke stack but not banning the old stoves altogether.

It's going to be longer than 5 years...maybe 20 but not 5. Beyond the enviromental concerns we have humans freezing up here and jobs are going away. With replacement parts being so scarce there's probably not a reason to ban the old stoves anyway. They'll be art pieces by then.

 

[polaris]

When you say you live on acerage then how could he even be close enough to really cause that much of a problem. Do we have different ideas about acerage? How much acerage? Are we talking 80? 40? 10? 5?. I have 2 neighbors wthin less than 1/2 a mile and one never ever seasons his wood for his furnace. I can smell it but am not bothered by it. As for being/feeling liable for his chimey maintanance you are not and should not. I would have a friendly chat way before I even considered calling the auhorities. If someone called on me without even giving me the chance to respond or try and deal with the issue I wuld be offended plain and simple. Face to face, man to man cordial conversations are (imho)
really always the right 1st step.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

Next door neighbor was out splitting wood this weekend, and hauling it up to the house. It's been down in log form for a couple years (red oak). He generates some serious smoke over there, but it's rarely an issue for e. I do pass a house in town that sits in a depression- it always seems filled with smoke in the winter.

I hear the concern about being a know-it-all. If you know the neighbor to be unreasonable, then maybe an anonymous letter explaining the breathing problems, smoke, and green wood might help without creating strife.

 

[myzamboni]

When you say you live on acerage then how could he even be close enough to really cause that much of a problem. Do we have different ideas about acerage? How much acerage? Are we talking 80? 40? 10? 5?. I have 2 neighbors wthin less than 1/2 a mile and one never ever seasons his wood for his furnace. I can smell it but am not bothered by it. As for being/feeling liable for his chimey maintanance you are not and should not. I would have a friendly chat way before I even considered calling the auhorities. If someone called on me without even giving me the chance to respond or try and deal with the issue I wuld be offended plain and simple. Face to face, man to man cordial conversations are (imho)
really always the right 1st step.

Ok, let's tweak the scenario a little bit: What if you were making large quantities biodiesel and did not have license* ? Let's say that I was your neighbor and did not like the smell. I would report you without first talking to you. Who knows what else you could be doing (moonshine, marijauana, meth, etc and could be armed and dangerous)?

OP has a right to be cautious.



*Individuals making fuel for on road use by making biodiesel which constitutes blending homemade biodiesel with diesel fuel or by making alcohol and blending it with gasoline, are required to be a licensed Gasoline or Special Fuels Dealer. Contact the Kentucky Department of Revenue (502) 564-3853 for more information.

 

[TMonter]

I struck up a conversations about 2 years ago with my older neighbor who had a smoke dragon. He cuts and splits some wood and buys some. I got to talking about stoves and instead of trying to get him to switch I bragged about the burn times and low wood usage of my Quad and let him come over and take a look. I was tired of the smoke from his house but I pitched it to him as the smoke he was putting out was Btu's that weren't heating his home and I pointed out how smoke free my chimney was. Since he was buying 6+ cord a year and I explained I only burned 3 for the same heating he decided to look into it.

This will be his second year on a new Quad 4100 and he loves it.

I know this won't always work, but sometimes you can implement change with a good pitch on why changing is useful to them.

 

[polaris]

"Moonshine,marijuana, armed and dangerous." You have obviously spent some time in KY. lol. You do however bring up a valid point. I would be surprised however if one knew so little about ones neighbors if he is indeed in a some what rural area. If someone was making biodiesel or growing marijuana on his/her own place then I would not feel the need to involve the authorities unless I felt I was in eminent danger. Live and let live. I don't smoke marijuana but I don't have a problem with what an adult does in privacy. As for bio fuel i don't have a problem with the manufacturer of a renewable less polluting energy sorce with or without a licence. I'm not a cop nor my neighbors daddy.

 

[Elfin]

You make a great point, myzamboni. I'm not one to hesitate to knock on a neighbor's door under most circumstances, but my community has a reputation for its redneck lawlessness. One can never be too careful, I suppose.

 

[gyrfalcon]

I think it's only a matter of 3-5 years before you see a nationwide requirement to burn only in EPA compliant wood stoves. The EPA's new rules under the Clean Air Act, which dictate lower permissible particulate matter in the air, have gone in to effect. Most states were not in compliance with the old standards. None may be able to comply with the new standards, even those with vast rural areas. You can only go so far through regulating vehicle emissions. That's why I think it's likely that one of the steps that will be taken is to outlaw all the use of old smoke dragons. I also wouldn't be surprised to see the EPA issue new standards for wood stove manufacturers, stricter than Phase II and requiring yet greater efficiency.

I hope that's not true. All you will get is a lot of law breakers. Here in Utah there are families who only heat with wood stoves and many of them are not catalytic. I can see requiring more emissions control in the smoke stack but not banning the old stoves altogether.

It's going to be longer than 5 years...maybe 20 but not 5. Beyond the enviromental concerns we have humans freezing up here and jobs are going away. With replacement parts being so scarce there's probably not a reason to ban the old stoves anyway. They'll be art pieces by then.

It's not true. It would make absolutely zero sense to do that. WHat would they do, have Stove Police to come arrest people with stoves that aren't on the approved list? I'm sure there will be gradually increasing requirements for the manufacture of new stoves, but the old ones will be grandfathered, just like they do with old cars in most states, either the emissions requirements are much more lenient or they don't require them at all over a certain age.

 

[Elfin]

WHat would they do, have Stove Police to come arrest people with stoves that aren't on the approved list? I'm sure there will be gradually increasing requirements for the manufacture of new stoves, but the old ones will be grandfathered, just like they do with old cars in most states, either the emissions requirements are much more lenient or they don't require them at all over a certain age.[/quote]

In many states, old stoves have been grandfathered in for quite some time now. Stricter regulations are coming... just look at the laws in Washington State, for example.

Like anything of this nature, enforcement will be complaint-driven. Which is why it's so important than everyone burn cleanly, with the best possible efficiency, and with respect to the health of surrounding neighbors.

 

[BurningIsLove]

Yep....there will always be a grandfather clause like for cars. Over time, the number of non-EPA stoves will drop simply due to attrition. If I had a non-EPA stove and sold my house, I would have it recycled just to force the new owners to get a new EPA stove. But there are a lot of old timers in my neighborhood and I can smell (or see) every single smoke dragon.

Unless you live in California, I'd never expect to see the 'stove police' enforcing any standard except in the face of numerous complaints

 

[Elfin]

This was an interesting thread with a lot of strong opinions pro/con. So... I thought everyone might be curious about how this turned out.

In a nutshell, I never did or said anything. And yes, they had a bad chimney fire a couple of months ago... road closed, multiple fire trucks, roof gone, photo in the newspaper, the whole nine yards. Thank goodness no one was hurt or worse, killed... I would have felt a certain responsibility for not having said anything about how badly they were burning.

In the end, it actually works out in my favor, as now they have no woodstove at all. The roof has been replaced and there is no more smoke dragon.

But... I wish I had said something, to have avoided this happening. It wasn't a "neighbor dispute." It was a truly dangerous situation.

 

[Cluttermagnet]

I’m not one to hesitate to knock on a neighbor’s door under most circumstances, but my community has a reputation for its redneck lawlessness. One can never be too careful, I suppose.

This was an interesting thread with a lot of strong opinions pro/con. So... I thought everyone might be curious about how this turned out.

In a nutshell, I never did or said anything. And yes, they had a bad chimney fire a couple of months ago... road closed, multiple fire trucks, roof gone, photo in the newspaper, the whole nine yards. Thank goodness no one was hurt or worse, killed... I would have felt a certain responsibility for not having said anything about how badly they were burning.

In the end, it actually works out in my favor, as now they have no woodstove at all. The roof has been replaced and there is no more smoke dragon.

But... I wish I had said something, to have avoided this happening. It wasn't a "neighbor dispute." It was a truly dangerous situation.

Wow- sad ending. It's kind of understandable that you decided not to talk to them, judging from your original (first) comment above. I wouldn't be too hard on yourself, therefore. There were extenuating circumstances. Your gut was telling you, probably rightly, that even kindly delivered advice might be forcefully rejected. I doubt very much whether you could have gotten them to change their ways. Perhaps only a house fire, and advice delivered by firemen after the fact, could ever have had a prayer of sinking in with these folks.

 

[Wet1]

Well at least nobody was hurt. Any pics or link to the newspaper article?

 

[firefighterjake]

Sooner or later we (the firefighters) meet the folks that just don't burn responsibly . . . sooner or later.