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  1. DexterDay

    DexterDay Guest

    Some are slightly different. But yes, its the same. Some just use term differently or use the # of degrees differently..

    Example : On my stat, at 2° swing, if set at 70°, will cycle the stat on at 68° and off at 72°… (2° each way from set point).
    So it essentially is 4° difference. But I like a big swing. The stove runs longer. But stays off longer.

    My Fahrenheit has a stat that has a swing thats different. If its set at 70° and I have a 2° swing/span. It comes on at 68° and off at 70°… So its really only 2°

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  2. jtakeman

    jtakeman Minister of Fire

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    Interesting, If you set it at 4º, what happens? Just curious as I have never used one with span.
  3. DexterDay

    DexterDay Guest

    Same thing. On at 66°, off at 70°… Its onky how many "below" set-point.

    Once it reaches the desired temp. It stops calling for heat.
  4. Ezekiel_33

    Ezekiel_33 New Member

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    Northern Michigan
    So, what is the best span setting to make sure that your stove doesn't short cycle? Does it depend on the stove? I have a pre-AE Mount Vernon by Quadrafire.
  5. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

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    Generally you need at least 1° to stop short cycling if your house has a very low heat loss.

    Most folks use 2° or 2.5°, the goal is to balance out igniter life and to prevent short cycling which in a number of pellets stoves causes a very large fire when the stove relights.

    The reason for the large fire has to do with the start up routine and sensing system.

    Some stoves feed pellets for a predetermined time and wait until they believe ignition has taken place, then they resume normal feeding.

    It is possible for such a stove to have shut off the convection and combustion fans but still have a warm heat sensor that reads above the point that it has to in order to resume normal pellet feeding so that stove will dump a load of pellets into the burn pot light them and without waiting to find out if the stove has really lit continue dumping pellets. Bigger pile of pellets in burn pot makes bigger initial flame in stove.

    If your stove has a high low setting you can shorten the swing since the igniter isn't used to go from low to high.
  6. Ezekiel_33

    Ezekiel_33 New Member

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    Loc:
    Northern Michigan
    Thanks everyone for your input. By the way, this programmable thermostat is sold at wally-world for $24 with a $10 mail in rebate from consumer's energy on the back. Seems to be working fine.
  7. DexterDay

    DexterDay Guest

    I prefer a 2° swing both ways, or 4° total. See post above.

    My Sky tech does 6° total or 3° each way. 1° isn't enough in my opinion
  8. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

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    Your house isn't a low heat loss house.
  9. DexterDay

    DexterDay Guest

    I could get away with 1°. But it still short cycles. House is 2x6 construction and is only 17 yrs old. New windows and updated insulation. Re-did the drywall a few years ago, and put 1/2" up over existing 1/2". That includes all walls and ceilings throughout the entire home. Once heated it stays heated well.

    I have 3 stoves in this joint, but only need the Quad and only use Low. The other 2 are "options" that I have. :) I like options. I have NEVER ran the Quad and Fahrenheit together. No need, with 2,200 upstairs and 800 sq uninsulated downstairs (the rest of the basement is either finished (bar/pool table room) or my Pellet storage or tool room.

    I like to think its a Low heat loss house. I prefer a large swing to keep the stove off for hours. 1° and the stove would cycle about every hour. It stays off for several hours with 4° total (2° each way) .

    I still put stuff over the windows, because every little bit counts. Only used 2 ton last year (3 cord of wood/uninsulated basement though).

    The way Quads are designed with the thermocouple, they need time off after running. 45 minutes is about the shortest I would want mine to kick back on. The risk of it "thinking" its still hot (t/c over 200° still) is to great inside the firebox. So using a large swing helps with this.

    Heat loss is a factor, but even a tight home with a 1° swing is gonna cycle almost every hour. Especially when Winter is upon us. Quads dont do High/Low, so you must either use a large swing or do the 24/7 thing (low and slow).
  10. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

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    And it just happens that some of the quads (including yours) are the ones that have the ability to have a really large start up fire and if for no reason other than that they need a decent swing.

    I run on hi/low during the non shoulder part of the season and I believe my swing is about 1°. I was playing a bit with it last year and haven't checked or replaced the batteries yet. Only one stove and it is also 2x6 construction including the finished portion of the basement where the stove is.

    I'm still working on the heat loss side of things. While on the subject did you get a chance to read those instruction on building interior storms?
  11. DexterDay

    DexterDay Guest

    Yeah. I read them. Hope to hit Menards tomorrow and get some supplies (and pellets!).

    Yes, the LARGE FIRE is the main reason I run a big swing. If my stove did High/Low, I would do the 1° or 2° swing.
    But it doesn't, so I like to let it sit and cool for as long as possible. Once you see and/or hear that BIG Blazing Roar, you dont want to see it again!!!

    My Fahrenheit does High/Low and I run 3° on it. I like to let the blower on it take a break. Its much bigger than a standard blower, so I like to let it rest a lil in between cycles. It still kicks on occasionally / when temp hits 160° above exchange area, but only for a short time. Unlike when the furnace is blasting amd blower runs constantly.

    Hoping my Menards has a Sale on Pellets (fingers crossed!) :)
  12. Ezekiel_33

    Ezekiel_33 New Member

    Joined:
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    Loc:
    Northern Michigan
    O.K. ready to make scrap metal out of the MT Vernon.

    I have removed and cleaned both fan assemblies.
    My Tcoupler is touching the end of the ceramic cover.
    The holes in my firepot are clean.
    The exhaust vent is clean.
    The ash pan is clean.
    The ignitor glows and starts the fire.
    Here is where this stove is at right now:

    Plug it in, blue light flashes in control box.
    "CALL" light is "ON".
    Fire starts.
    Green light comes on (Tcoupler is happy that there is fire???)
    Burns for a few minutes, then red light comes on. (Don't have a clue what the red light is indicating)
    Pellets stop feeding.
    "CALL" light is still "ON".
    Green light stays on for quite a while.
    Combustion fan stays on for quite a while.
    Pressing "RESET" does no good during this period.
    After everything stops, press "RESET" and the whole thing will repeat.
    I tried all 3 settings on the controller that the chart shows for my stove in another thread.

    Any Ideas what to check for next?
    What does the RED light mean?
    What conditions would cause it to only run for a few minutes like this?
  13. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

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    The red light indicates that the t/c is seeing 600::Fand the controller considers the stove to be up and running.

    Did your convection fan turn on?
  14. Ezekiel_33

    Ezekiel_33 New Member

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    After a couple of times of manually cycling like this, I think it did when the stove got hot enough.
  15. Ezekiel_33

    Ezekiel_33 New Member

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    So, what does the green light mean? It seemed to come on after there was a flame for a few minutes, and stay on until the pot cooled down.
  16. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

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    The green light says I am warm enough to consider that the stove may be lit so I best feed pellets to keep it lit (this is also the bane of the short cycle issue with quad products).
  17. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

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    How long is the stove taking to go to red light on the t/c? THere is a startup timeout window and if it takes to long the stove will go to shut down.

    You should check your vacuum tubing for blockage or being loose or cracked.

    Also when you cleaned your venting did you clean the termination cap?
  18. DexterDay

    DexterDay Guest

    Stove starts up (call light), goes into start up sequence, ignitor gets hot, pellets feed, etc. Once a flame is established and 200° is met, the light turns Green, auger starts to feed pellets and all should be well. After a few more minutes of flame, it recognizes 600° at the T/C, then light goes Red. Shortly after, the snap disc should reach set temp (110°-125°?) And convection blower will kick on.

    Sounds like all is going well? This time, just pay jo attention to the status light inside the stove. Let it do its thing..
  19. Ezekiel_33

    Ezekiel_33 New Member

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    Yeah, the cap, the pipe, the cleanout that I have on the bottom of a "T" coming out the back of the stove.
    I did check the vacuum line for blockages, wasn't blocked. Could be possible leaking though? I will inspect for that. Have to find out where it hooks on to the stove chamber. The rubber seems very soft yet, and is hard to get off of the barbs on the switch fitting.

    I will also see how long it takes for the red light to come on tonight. Thanks for all the help. The only thing left if the vacuum is good are the (I think 3) snap discs and the controller itself I think. I just bought the controller last spring, and then didn't burn much after that. I hope they have some kind of warranty time on them, as expensive as they are.
  20. Ezekiel_33

    Ezekiel_33 New Member

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    You guys have me wondering if the convection blower did actually come on or not. I know it did when I pulled the wires off the snap disc and held them together.

    If it is not coming on, is that when it gets hot so the high limit snap disc opens and the pellets stop feeding?
  21. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

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    Could be....
  22. DexterDay

    DexterDay Guest

    Do you have to reset the High temp snap disc?

    It should be a manual reset?
  23. Ezekiel_33

    Ezekiel_33 New Member

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    I forgot about the push button reset. If that is tripped the stove won't even light initially, will it?
  24. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

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    That should be the case.
  25. DexterDay

    DexterDay Guest

    Should be manual. Make sure it is.

    Because if the stove is shutting down, and its a manual reset. Then its not hitting the High Limit. Its shutting down for another reason. It could be the vacuum or the T/C. Not much else to a Quad.

    The convection blower may not be turning on, because the snap disc iant getting hot enough? So it may not have anything to do with the disc or the blower.

    Still sounds vac related? Is the vacuum line blown clean (towards stove)?

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