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Thinking about trying square chisel

Post in 'The Gear' started by Nixon, Apr 11, 2013.

  1. Nixon

    Nixon Minister of Fire

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    any of You folks using it ? How bad is the learning curve on sharpening ? Is it worth the effort as far a chain speed ?

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  2. MasterMech

    MasterMech Guest

    You're talking about square ground/filed chain? I haven't tried it mostly because it's supposed to be darn near impossible to hand-file and I do not have a grinder.

    Supposed to cut faster than round-filed chisel chain but dulls faster as well.
  3. Nixon

    Nixon Minister of Fire

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    That's exactly what I'm talking about . I may just get a few chains just to see if it's hype ,or fact . As far as sharpening .....If I like it , I'll buy an Atop jig to do it . they aren't cheap at close to $200 . Bailey's - Atop Square Filing Guide with 2 Files
    Like You said , it's darned near impossible ,so that's why I want to try it . a 20+% increase in cutting speed is worth chasing .
    smokinj and mikefrommaine like this.
  4. bogydave

    bogydave Minister of Fire

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    Try it & give us a review.
    That's part of the fun, try some new things & ideas
    Keeps some fun in the game ;)
  5. Nixon

    Nixon Minister of Fire

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    I believe I'm going to . But now as to the review ....Y'all will just have to take my opinions , No pics ,and definitely no vids . :)
  6. bogydave

    bogydave Minister of Fire

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    LOL ;lol

    It'll be fun
    Your opinion will be good enough. ;)
    May need a bigger saw with more HP to throw a square chisel. ha ha
    Nixon likes this.
  7. PapaDave

    PapaDave Minister of Fire

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    Aw, come on. I've never seen square chisel.
    PICS PICS PICS
  8. Nixon

    Nixon Minister of Fire

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    neither have I ! At any rate , the chain (2 72 dl ,and 2 84 dl ) has been ordered . Also the ATOP jig . Like they say ... in for a penny , in for a pound .
    And before it's mentioned ....... Yes , there is nice jewelry involved in this venture . :)
    PapaDave likes this.
  9. bogydave

    bogydave Minister of Fire

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    Not one for each saw ?

    Jewelry works ;)
    : :
    Diamond tipped cutters LOL ;lol
    Nixon likes this.
  10. Nixon

    Nixon Minister of Fire

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    I'm working on the bigger /more hp dream right now . there are rumors of a 572 xp auto tune in the wind . Personally , I was hoping for a 595 xp auto tune . :)
  11. Nixon

    Nixon Minister of Fire

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    You're starting to sound like my EX WiFE ! :)
  12. Nixon

    Nixon Minister of Fire

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    Mike , that appears to be Stihl chain . couldn't find it on their site . do yo have their PN ?
  13. MasterMech and Nixon like this.
  14. Nixon

    Nixon Minister of Fire

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    Thanks mike ! Have you used it ?
  15. MasterMech

    MasterMech Guest

    Nixon, if you're buyin' the hardware, I'll provide the review production. ;)
    Nixon likes this.
  16. downeast

    downeast Guest

    Just say "no" to a square ground for what most of us use saws for.
    It is not just the learning curve for sharpening, simple enough with practice. The chain is for strictly clean, fast cutting.
    Firewood harvesting and bucking means grit, dirt that quickly dulls a square ground, besides 'grounding' a chain or rocking one such as discovering a round in a tree, barbed wire, fencing,
    or nails. Bad enough to see sparks on a cloudy day!

    Advice from the pits ? Stick to shorter bars ~ 16"-20", and round or semi chains. No need for the macho 36", square ground chains, or MS880 saws for what you do.

    My newer MS261 with a 16" bar and "yellow" chains does 99 44/100 % of the yearly firewood, pulp, and blowdowns for this coastal Maine woods; trees rarely larger than 24" DBH. The shorter bar is easier to handle, sharpen, carry. And yes, the 16" bar will easily do a 24" butt.
    Bster13, JustWood and Nixon like this.
  17. smokinj

    smokinj Minister of Fire

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    No its not worth the effort or expense! (Unless you have a real need for speed) Better be making good money to support the cost. :eek: Good file alone about 15.00.
    Nixon likes this.
  18. smokinj

    smokinj Minister of Fire

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    20 percent extra speed with a chain will take more than atop(Race Chain). Proven race chains will go for "BIG MONEY" And remember your only looking to do 3 cuts with it before its re-sharpened.
  19. Bigg_Redd

    Bigg_Redd Minister of Fire

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    *The following is just my opinion based on a lifetime of experience, and the experience of the lifetimes of others growing up and living in a logging town*

    1) I am not using it

    2) It is no more difficult to sharpen than round bit chains - the principles are identical - but they do dull much more quickly.

    3) Unless you are falling the trees and bucking them before they get a chance to sit on the ground very long they are not worth the extra cutting speed.
    Nixon likes this.
  20. StihlHead

    StihlHead Guest

    I have a loop of full chisel square grind but I never use it. The square filed chisel tips are so thin anything will bend, dull, chip or rock them. Then filing them evenly and at the right angles is really hard to do. I use round filed semi-chisel in crud, on stumps, dirty and gritty wood. Semi-chisel cutters stay sharp a lot longer. The curve in the chisel deflects a lot of crud that would otherwise dull a full chisel point. They are also easier to file than full-chisel. I use round filed full chisel in clean wood, as round filing gives the chisel point a lot more support.

    Rule of thumb (from Madsens) is that square filed full chisel is 10% faster than round filed full chisel, which is 10% faster than round filed semi-chisel. I doubt that you will get 20% gains from square filed full chisel over round filed, unless you are doing three cut cookie race cuts in squeeky clean wood. I have found that semi-chisel stays sharp a lot longer than full chisel. If you want a better cutting chain use non-safety to get rid of the extra rakers and keep your rakers filed right. If you want to get better torque or speed in the wood, change the rim drives to give you better control. Larger rims will give you more chain speed, and faster cuts in many situations. Smaller rims will give you more torque and more pull with less bogging.

    As for shrimpy bars always being better, that is not the case in my experience. Making one cut from one side is usually faster, cleaner and you get better face and back cuts, as well as falling hinges. If the bar seems long, go to semi or full skip chain to keep the chain speed up, or reduce the rim size to get more torque. It all depends on what wood you are cutting of course, the type of cutting (cross grain or with the grain) and what size saw you have. And it helps to have an outboard clutch to make rims swaps. Short loops may be faster to sharpen, but they are also faster to dull. I have found that a few inches either way in bar size does not make that much difference in how they handle, especially with larger saws. I have found that longer bars do better in all around cutting myself, but then I suffer from PNW long bar disease. ;)
    downeast, Bigg_Redd, Nixon and 2 others like this.
  21. Nixon

    Nixon Minister of Fire

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    Thanks for the advice and opinions guys. This is just one of those things that i've been meaning to try for a few years .
    If it works out reasonably well.... Great ! If not ......no big loss in the grand scheme of things . If nothing else , it'll help keep an old fart occupied .;)
    smokinj, mikefrommaine and bogydave like this.
  22. bogydave

    bogydave Minister of Fire

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    I like it
    "Bucket list" :)
    Nixon likes this.
  23. smokinj

    smokinj Minister of Fire

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    Might try a part-time gf......;) Could be cheaper and make "You" faster! lmbo
    Nixon likes this.
  24. Nixon

    Nixon Minister of Fire

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    Well the ATOP ,files and chains arrived this AM . Still trying to get my head around the angles of these chains . Shouldn't be all that hateful to learn with the jig . As soon as I'm done cleaning up all the dead-falls from this winter , I've got a few Aspen and Tamarack to drop . That should give the chains something clean to work on .


    If you're serious , I can chuck one(chain ) in the mail . Do You want it new , or butchered by Me ? Oh ,and I get it back after the review , right ? :)
    smokinj likes this.

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