My "classic" smoke dragon wood stove. Looking for some feedback on what stove I should be looking for. I live in Lower Southwest Michigan, 1700 sq ft house, less than adequate insulation. I burn about 6-7 cords a season in a highly inefficient ancient wood stove, not even a name or brand on the beast. I use it as my only source of heat in the winter, so it runs 24/7. My main concern in a wood stove is burn length and ease of use. It's just myself and my 14 year old son, so after we leave in the morning no one is here to feed the stove until he gets home around 8 hours later. I would like a stove that doesn't have a complicated system to get going after that length of time. Would I be better off looking at a pellet stove? Cost is also a factor, I can't spend more than $3000 or it's gonna be a bean and rice winter!
Thinking of replacing
- Thread starter notbobvilla
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webbie
Seasoned Moderator
There are a LOT of stoves that can fill this need - instead of telling you what to get, let me start with what NOT to get.....
You should not get a non-cat stove under 3 cubic feet of firebox and no cat stove less than 2 cubic feet of firebox.
Make certain your chimney system is up to snuff so you don't get burned later in the process as far as cost.
Pellets are going to cost you - much more than wood in many cases, especially if you can find cheap and free wood. It also depends on what other fuels you are comparing against - nat gas can sometimes be as cheap as pellets! Pellets will burn longer, but require electricity and you do need to buy all your fuel. This means making sure of multiple sources of supply at reasonable prices located near your house.
Another consideration is whether you need professional installation or are more DIY. There are some stoves available from internet and discount sources - like napoleon, drolet, us stove, englander and others.....these can be good values if they fit the bill. However, you are going to have to take care of delivery, hookup, etc.
Local dealers can provide the proper guidance as far as heating capability, as well as installation and upgrading of the chimney, etc. - and I think you can easily get by in your price range.
My advice it to make the decision as to wood vs. pellets vs. anything else (gas, etc.) first, and then use the process of elimination (buy local? etc.) to work through the stoves based on the guidelines I gave and your budget. It is pretty unfair for me...or for that matter any other member...to TELL you what to buy. See my sticky post about why relying on us for buying decisions is not always the right move!
You should not get a non-cat stove under 3 cubic feet of firebox and no cat stove less than 2 cubic feet of firebox.
Make certain your chimney system is up to snuff so you don't get burned later in the process as far as cost.
Pellets are going to cost you - much more than wood in many cases, especially if you can find cheap and free wood. It also depends on what other fuels you are comparing against - nat gas can sometimes be as cheap as pellets! Pellets will burn longer, but require electricity and you do need to buy all your fuel. This means making sure of multiple sources of supply at reasonable prices located near your house.
Another consideration is whether you need professional installation or are more DIY. There are some stoves available from internet and discount sources - like napoleon, drolet, us stove, englander and others.....these can be good values if they fit the bill. However, you are going to have to take care of delivery, hookup, etc.
Local dealers can provide the proper guidance as far as heating capability, as well as installation and upgrading of the chimney, etc. - and I think you can easily get by in your price range.
My advice it to make the decision as to wood vs. pellets vs. anything else (gas, etc.) first, and then use the process of elimination (buy local? etc.) to work through the stoves based on the guidelines I gave and your budget. It is pretty unfair for me...or for that matter any other member...to TELL you what to buy. See my sticky post about why relying on us for buying decisions is not always the right move!
Thanks for the info Web. I understand about making my own choice about which stove I decide on, just looking for advice and "real" world informarion. Wood is my prefered choice over pellets just becasue of the volitile nature of pellet prices. I buy wood from a local source that I have been using for several years and the price is fair ($125 a cord, delivered). A concern of mine is the reloading by my son, I read alot about "overfiring" and being very careful with the whole process. My son has a short attention span when it comes to watching anything that doesn't have a internet connection attached to it. Are longer than 8 hour burn times "normal" with a "cat" stove? Is it possible to still have a decent fire 10 hours later when I get home? I know burn time is dependant on alot more than just the stove, again just looking at "real" world advice. How accurate are the woodstove mfg. square foot ratings? Should I beleive them? Is it possible to get too big of a woodstove? I'll be replacing the stove and chimney pipe because I want it to be done all in one shot.
Thanks again
Thanks again
webbie
Seasoned Moderator
Sq Ft ratings are not accurate - use the firebox size as well as user experiences near you (see our ratings sections).
We even have a burn time calculator, which shows the burn time of various sized fireboxes.
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/burn_time_calculator
Yes, it is very possible to get a cat stove and have a decent fire 10 hours later - but your choices are relatively few in cat stoves.
The Blaze King Princess claims up to 20 hours - and even cutting that in half would satisfy you:
http://www.blazeking.com/wood-products.html
A cat stove like Countryflames or Bucks might also do the job:
http://www.countryflame.com/bbfstove.php
You have to watch out for the flue sizes of some of these - maybe you have a 6 and the stove takes an 8.
Even a soapstone cat like the Woodstock Fireview:
http://woodstove.com/pages/wood_stove_fireview.html
Might do your 10 hours easy - a lot of forum members have this model, so you can probably find ratings in the ratings section as well as other opinions.
The more I think about it, the more that a cat stove of some sort is best for your needs.
We even have a burn time calculator, which shows the burn time of various sized fireboxes.
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/burn_time_calculator
Yes, it is very possible to get a cat stove and have a decent fire 10 hours later - but your choices are relatively few in cat stoves.
The Blaze King Princess claims up to 20 hours - and even cutting that in half would satisfy you:
http://www.blazeking.com/wood-products.html
A cat stove like Countryflames or Bucks might also do the job:
http://www.countryflame.com/bbfstove.php
You have to watch out for the flue sizes of some of these - maybe you have a 6 and the stove takes an 8.
Even a soapstone cat like the Woodstock Fireview:
http://woodstove.com/pages/wood_stove_fireview.html
Might do your 10 hours easy - a lot of forum members have this model, so you can probably find ratings in the ratings section as well as other opinions.
The more I think about it, the more that a cat stove of some sort is best for your needs.
I am gonna back up Craig (web) on the cat. If I were looking for 24/7 whole house heating, I would be looking at a stove of 3+ cu ft. with a cat and maybe even a soapstone version for the long term storage/release of the heat.
Be aware that a cat stove usually is "a little" more hands on during a reload or startup. The stove must be brought up to temp and then the cat is engaged. Its not rocket science stuff, but something to keep in mind while you start your new stove quest.
Edit: Craig, I have never viewed the burn time calc before. That is a pretty neat tool.
Be aware that a cat stove usually is "a little" more hands on during a reload or startup. The stove must be brought up to temp and then the cat is engaged. Its not rocket science stuff, but something to keep in mind while you start your new stove quest.
Edit: Craig, I have never viewed the burn time calc before. That is a pretty neat tool.
Adios Pantalones
Minister of Fire
A comment:
"the price is fair ($125 a cord, delivered). "
That's not a 'fair' price- at least in my area. That is an absolute steal.
"the price is fair ($125 a cord, delivered). "
That's not a 'fair' price- at least in my area. That is an absolute steal.
Todd
Minister of Fire
I heat 1800sq ft with the Woodstock Fireview cat stove. I easily get 10-12hr burns with a full load of good dry Oak. Its not complicated to run this stove, you just have to watch the stove top temp and wait 10-20 minutes to engage the cat. Even if you go with a non cat stove, you still have to wait 10-20 minutes and char the wood before you adjust the air control down to a slow burn.
$125 per cord is a great deal, stock up and get a couple or 3 years worth.
$125 per cord is a great deal, stock up and get a couple or 3 years worth.
Thanks for all the info. Yup I am stocking up at that price, 2 cords stacked already and told them to bring me 6 cords next week. A question on a "cat" stove, can I reload and NOT engage the "cat" when the time comes? Just thinking if I can have my son load the woodstove and not mess with engaging it, I could fool with that when I get home a few hours later. I understand it would not be efficient but it beats burning down the house!!
thechimneysweep
Minister of Fire
Hey notbob,
You don't want to burn a catalytic stove for long periods without engaging the cat. Whenever the cat is disengaged, you'll have no secondary burn at all, so you'll lose up to half the potential heat from your fire up the chimney. Meanwhile, since the emissions aren't being reburned, you will form much more creosote in your chimney and cause WAY more airborne pollution.
I recommend a non-catalytic model for ease of operation and all-around performance. And you don't have to experience shorter burn times with a non-cat. I burned a Pacific Energy Alderlea T6 (3 cu.ft. firebox) last year on my showroom floor, and always had hot coals and a warm store in the morning, 14 hours after we banked the fire and went home. I sell this model, and have hundreds of customers who report the same experience. You can buy the same firebox in the Summit and Summit Classic models, and all are well under $3,000.00.
You don't want to burn a catalytic stove for long periods without engaging the cat. Whenever the cat is disengaged, you'll have no secondary burn at all, so you'll lose up to half the potential heat from your fire up the chimney. Meanwhile, since the emissions aren't being reburned, you will form much more creosote in your chimney and cause WAY more airborne pollution.
I recommend a non-catalytic model for ease of operation and all-around performance. And you don't have to experience shorter burn times with a non-cat. I burned a Pacific Energy Alderlea T6 (3 cu.ft. firebox) last year on my showroom floor, and always had hot coals and a warm store in the morning, 14 hours after we banked the fire and went home. I sell this model, and have hundreds of customers who report the same experience. You can buy the same firebox in the Summit and Summit Classic models, and all are well under $3,000.00.
Thanks for all your replies. Good thing I started this research EARLY....too many darn choices!! Quick question on chimney's. What I have now is an 8" thru the ceiling out the roof about 24'. I'm going to replace with all new. Mine is single wall up to the ceiling (almost) than double (triple) wall the rest of the way. Is it still done that way or is it insulated all the way? Roughly how much is the pipe? Also need a good cap...any recomendations?
Todd
Minister of Fire
thechimneysweep said:
I think the T6 or Summit may be overkill for 1700 sq ft, unless your house is really poorly insulated and leaked air like a sieve.
A 14 hour burn time with a noncat is hard to believe, especially with all that pine you guys burn out west. Oh, and just because it's a cat stove doesn't mean it's harder to operate and lacks in performance from a non cat, I would state the oposite.
I ran the T6 in a milder climate, 2000 sq ft. house this spring and would have to agree with Tom that it may be a good fit. This is the very stove Tom is tested and it never drove us out of room or house. For a big stove, it is very well behaved and happy to run cleanly with smaller loads of fuel. Considering the OP has less than ideal insulation in an old house, if he can get a good deal on a Summit, it should work ok. I can't testify to the max burn time yet because we've only run partial loads so far. But 9 hrs with a half load of fuel is definitely possible. The PE Super series was tested by Tom's shop as having the longest burn time out of 61 stoves (unless the T6 beat that record?).
However, the OP did indicate that budget is of importance. Both the Summit and the Woodstock Fireview appear to be too high end for this project unless there is a good stove deal happening locally. To stay on budget, I'm thinking perhaps a PE Super27, Napoleon 1401, Enviro Kodiak 1700, Englander 13NC etc. . Remember, he wants to replace 24' of flue too.
However, the OP did indicate that budget is of importance. Both the Summit and the Woodstock Fireview appear to be too high end for this project unless there is a good stove deal happening locally. To stay on budget, I'm thinking perhaps a PE Super27, Napoleon 1401, Enviro Kodiak 1700, Englander 13NC etc. . Remember, he wants to replace 24' of flue too.
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