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This is the actual code requiring listings and labeling appliances It should clear up missconceptio

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by elkimmeg, Dec 2, 2005.

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  1. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

    Craig: “Since NFPA actually addresses “generic” stoves, one might assume that they are allowing for installation of them...or at least giving the local official leway to do so”.

    Generic clearances are not solely dedicated just for wood stoves. Single wall vent is 18” be it wood stove oil burner or gas hot water heater. Point being generic clearance is not an endorsement for installing an unlisted appliance. It is a guide line that’s all. As part of the labeling requirement, is listing distance to combustibles on all approved UL tested wood stoves
    UL and the EPA established the only recognized wood stove testing standard. Ul may endorse a testing facility such as Omni or Warnock Hersey but they are certified to test to UL standards. There is no language in the NFPA stating generic stoves. Instead there are generic clearances TO COMBUSTIABLES THAT ALL STOVES MUST MEET. Manufactures submit a stove and manufacturing process to be tested, if certified, clearances can be reduced as listed.
    A word on the testing process: once the sample and manufacturing process is certified that sets the listing and standard for proper installation and use. The manufacture cannot deviate from the listed specs unless they submit another sample or model to be re-tested and certified. I ran into a situation where an engineer stated the manufacture told him it was ok to reduce clearances to combustibles on a GE gas dryer. I requested proof in writing. The engineer provided me a letter stating as such. But I wanted proof from GE. He could not provide so I called GE. I was referred all the way to the head of engineering. The person the engineer quoted did not work for GE. GE head of engineering, told me that even he could nor anyone at GE can reduce clearances of that model to less than what is listed and tested. I requested he fax me letter stating as such. Which he did. I kept this under my hat as I got notice to appear in front of the state review board. That’s right, the engineer pushed some buttons and had me questioned in front of the review board to get me removed. What he did not prepare for was his own dismissal. I produced his letter where he perjured himself and the fax from GE. Letters sent to the building inspections office, are entered into public record. I had the town clerk stamp his letter in right after it was delivered to our office, to public records. In the 10 years I have had 4 sessions in front of the review board and two court cases. Guess what I am still an inspector. It got to a point, if the state did not here a complaint, they thought either I was on vacation, dead or not doing my job. In most states including mine, there are few or no Mechanical inspectors. Building inspectors usually do not venture into mechanical codes. Yet the codes are on the books, under their jurisdiction. Naturally resistance occurred when an entire trade is now being inspected and required to adhere to code. This is why I have been challenged so often in the beginning. I have been challenged on this forum many times each and every time I have backed it up with actual code or admitted it was my opinion. Even then I gave the reasoning behind my opinion.

    International Mechanical codes Recognized by all states
    Chapter 3 general Regulations.

    301.3 Listed and Labled
    All appliances regulated by this code shall be listed and labled

    301. 4 Labeling
    shall be in accordance with the procedures set forth in Sections 301.4.1 through 301.4.2.3

    301.4.1 Testing An approved agency shall test a representative sample of the mechanical equipment and appliances being labeled to the relevant standard or standards. The approving agency ( Ul in the case of wood stoves) shall maintain a record of all test preformed. The records shall provide sufficient details to verify compliance with test standards.

    301.4.2 Inspections and Identifications
    The approved agency shall periodically perform an inspection, which shall be in- plant if necessary, and appliances to be labeled of the mechanical equipment. The inspection shall verify that the labeled mechanical equipment and appliances are representative of the mechanical equipment and appliances tested.

    301.5 Label Information
    A permanent factory- applied name plate(s) shall be affixed to the appliance on which shall appear in legible lettering the manufacturer’s name or trade mark, the model number, serial number and the seal or mark of the testing agency
    3. Fuel burning units the hourly rating in Btu/h (w): the type of fuel approved for use with the appliance; and the required clearances

    301.6 Conflicts
    Where conflicts between this code and the conditions of the listing or manufacture’s installation instructions occur, the provisions of this code shall apply

    Exception: Where enforcement of the code provision would violate the conditions of the listing of the equipment or appliance, the conditions of the listing and the manufacturer’s installation instruction shall apply

    Craig this is the actual code as written. Anybody who has followed my post, will realize I do not type precisely this way. After reading this code, I would think you would find it hard to advise others not to follow what is written and is code. I realize that not all municipalities have inspectors versed in Mechanical codes. That unlisted stoves are still being installed and approved. I have no jurisdiction there, only that on this forum these are the actual codes. My certification is restricted to the municipality that hires me. Certified on a federal level, I qualify to be hired by any municipality that recognizes the federal certification process ( that includes all 50 states) The code concerning listed and labeled are clear, no where is generic mentioned. Furthermore I can say No permit will be issued for an unlisted stove in my town

    In answer to a prior post” I have installed it (never have heard of ‘if it is not UL listed you can’t legally install it”
    If your have read this far he

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  2. Nokoni

    Nokoni New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2005
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    145
    I wish you were the inspector where I live! All of the detail makes me feel more confortable, especially after the pictures of house fires yesterday. Got the wall sealed in around the Micore and hoping for the best.
  3. Sundeep Arole

    Sundeep Arole New Member

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    Loc:
    Framingham, MA
    And I think it is also true in my town that they won't issue a permit for a unlisted stove. To get a permit you need to hand in a copy of the instruction manual. That has the listing label too. No manual, no permit. No excuses.
  4. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

    There is a size limitation to what can be posted It would not finish my final statements I got cut off in middle of a sentance

    In answer to a prior post” I have installed it (never have heard of ‘if it is not UL listed you can’t legally install it”
    If your have read this far he now has heard of the UL listing requirement. I willing to bet his illegal install was without a permit?
    If someone does not present the actual code then there is a lot of missconceptions and bad advice due to ingorance. This is where many can get themselves in trouble. My post, I hope is referenced for the information and not my oppinions. I have one town I inspect in. I do not have any other jurisdiction. If your town excepts unlisted stoves and passes inspection you have done the right thing by permitting the process. If you installed the stove listed or unlisted, without a permit ,you just installed it illegally Some towns do not even require permitting or are not equiped to adequately do inspections. It is still the installer or homeowners responsibility to inquire. Again if they tell you no permits are required at least you asked. I would ask that they put that in writing so you have a record of asking, should your insurance company ask for a certificate of compliance I also admit not all inspectors are good inspectors. Like any profession there are good ones an others mailing it in.




    "I only post these comments to correct some information."

    My answers is, .

    . My entire post was to correct some informatiom Backed up by actual governing code. Not my interpetation but the
    code as written.
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