xman23
Minister of Fire
Good to read about Echo from the Echo users. We get so much Stilh info here. know they sell in HD. Are there HD models and higher quality pro models?
Thoughts on echo chainsaw
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I was deciding between the same two saws last year. I ended up getting the CS-490 18" and I love it. The 490 is very light which was a big deal for me. I stole mine for $280 at my dealer's customer appreciation sale. Can't beat the 5 year warranty either. Go Echo! And please support your local dealers before the big box, the saw is the same.
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Yeah, there are pro saws as well. I bought consumer model years ago at HD, and I bought my Makita there as well. I'm thinking that I'm going to get another Makita there and turn it into the 80cc saw that I want. Those things are a bargain at$250. Add on the Bailey's big bore kit and have almost a brand new 80cc saw for $400.
I love when I pull the orange saw and the green-blue saw out and guys all what kind of saw they are like I'm an idiot because it's not white and orange. At the end of the day, nothing else is said because they hold their own. Echo is like the Honda of chainsaws. Keep oil and gas in it and it'll run. I don't care what color your saw is, though, if it's not tuned up and your chain is dull, it won't run with a pinch of crap.
I hate to sound stupid but could someone explain how to go about the muffler mod and retuning the carb. I've had a few saws but never did anything like that to them just ran them and assumed that's what I got. Then I found this site. I would like to get as much out of it as I can
! Thanks for any and all advice
! Thanks for any and all advice
jatoxico
Minister of Fire
I re-tuned my saw (no muffler mod) and basically you want to richin up the high speed circuit until it "4 strokes" but cleans up in the cut. Mostly it seems new saws are shipped lean to meet emissions and benefit from tuning. If you mod the muffler (remove restricting material) you have to turn out the high speed side or the over lean condition can damage the saw.
I'm no expert, just have basic small engine skill. I got some help here and checked out some youtube videos. A video will help a lot since it takes time to explain but the process itself is pretty easy. You may need a tool or have cut some notches in the mixture screws.
I'm no expert, just have basic small engine skill. I got some help here and checked out some youtube videos. A video will help a lot since it takes time to explain but the process itself is pretty easy. You may need a tool or have cut some notches in the mixture screws.
I agree. I've got 3 Stihls, and also own Jonsereds and Huskys. I'm not brand loyal.
Looks like the Stihl marketing machine and their superior dealer network is working because many people have blindfolds on when it comes to chainsaws. If it ain't white and orange it must be low level.
Funny. I'm not into chainsaw racing. But I've got a Jonsered 2252 ( same as a Husky 545/550 orange versions) which was ported, fitted with a high compression piston, and muffler modded. I have on a few occasions been asked by a couple buddies of mine how my little saw cuts so darn fast, faster than a couple of well run but well maintained 036 Stihls they own. And it's red so It must be low level compared to their white and orange saw. It's always good fun
Again not a Stihl hater here I've got 3 stihl saws including a new 661 so I like them. I just don't buy into their marketing crap
I feel the same way, really. I don't hate Stihl saws, but I don't own any right now. I also don't own any Husqvarna or jonsered saws, but I've got nothing against them. I just find it funny, no matter what, some folks think that because you made a different decision than they did, you're terrible at making decisions in their eyes, and problem should absolve yourself of your right to vote. That's how bad of a saw/truck/refrigerator/pair of jeans you bought.I agree. I've got 3 Stihls, and also own Jonsereds and Huskys. I'm not brand loyal.
Looks like the Stihl marketing machine and their superior dealer network is working because many people have blindfolds on when it comes to chainsaws. If it ain't white and orange it must be low level.
Funny. I'm not into chainsaw racing. But I've got a Jonsered 2252 ( same as a Husky 545/550 orange versions) which was ported, fitted with a high compression piston, and muffler modded. I have on a few occasions been asked by a couple buddies of mine how my little saw cuts so darn fast, faster than a couple of well run but well maintained 036 Stihls they own. And it's red so It must be low level compared to their white and orange saw. It's always good fun
Again not a Stihl hater here I've got 3 stihl saws including a new 661 so I like them. I just don't buy into their marketing crap
jetsam
Minister of Fire
Echo uses "limiter caps" so you can't get to the carb adjustment screws. Imagine a hollow cylinder with one side open (like a drinking glass), and a small vertical plastic tab on the outside of the open end.
What you can do (outside of buying special dealer tools) is very carefully drive a long screw into that cap. Just put it in enough that the thread bites, and find the rotation that allows you to pull the cap off. Repeat for the other cap. Shave those tabs off the side with a knife so that they're both smooth cylinders. Tune the carb like any other carb and replace the caps. They will be easy to remove next time because you cut the tabs off.
When I tune my echo I usually use a tachometer, which a lot of people sneer at, but I think I am a little more consistent going that way than playing it by ear.
I make sure the air filter and exhaust are clean, gas up the saw, and let it warm up a few minutes at idle.
Check your saw's specs/manual for proper idle speed and max RPM. Once the saw is warm, set the idle speed to whatever the book says (if you're too lazy to check the book, set it to where it's running fine, lower it until it starts to lub, then bump it up a little from there.)
Now turn the low speed screw rich (ccw for my saws) until it starts to run a little rough. Reverse direction, counting the turns, until it runs well and then rough again. Reverse direction again. And put it in the middle, where it runs the best, maybe a little towards the rich side.
Now go set the idle speed again, same as the first time.
Now hold down the throttle to wide open and adjust the high speed screw. I screw it out (that's rich on both my saws) until it runs a little rough, then turn it lean through max RPM until it slows down a little, and then back it off rich again until it makes that warbly 4-cycle noise. If I'm not in the woods, I use the tachometer to fine tune RPM from there; if I am in the woods I'm done and it works fine.
. If in doubt, leave this screw a little rich. The leaner you run the hotter the saw runs and the less lube it gets. Another way to say this is that you want to find the spot where it goes from nice and smooth to rough from being too rich, and put it right on the edge towards the rich side.
Now let it idle again, and see how it goes from idle to full speed. If it doesn't idle smoothly or it stumbles when accelerated, adjust the idle and low speed screws again as above.
Aaand set your idle screw one last time, and you're done forever, or until your saw's environmental temperature, altitude, air filter, or gas changes, or the carb somehow experiences vibrations, whichever comes first.
Edit: Oh, and 'muffler mod' is simpler but you should think about it before jumping in. You're removing the pollution controls in most cases, making the saw louder in all cases, you are voiding any warranty you might have had, and probably breaking some law somewhere. (Transporting dentures across state lines is a federal offense in the US, so I'm sure that tweaking chainsaws probably is too.)
The idea is that the muffler has lots of air restrictions for the catalytic converter and noise control baffles, which are all optional for people who own drills and files. You are going to give the air a more convenient path to get through the muffler can- maybe a little more convenient, maybe a lot. The more you open it up, the louder the saw is going to be and the more potential gains you'll see. I suggest picking a method that allows you to keep the stock spark arrestor.
Maybe you want to leave the cat but drill out the noise baffles, or maybe you want to punch a big hole straight through, or maybe you want to cut the whole can in half and empty it out and weld it together again.
Whatever you do, you'll need to tune the carb when you're done.
What you can do (outside of buying special dealer tools) is very carefully drive a long screw into that cap. Just put it in enough that the thread bites, and find the rotation that allows you to pull the cap off. Repeat for the other cap. Shave those tabs off the side with a knife so that they're both smooth cylinders. Tune the carb like any other carb and replace the caps. They will be easy to remove next time because you cut the tabs off.
When I tune my echo I usually use a tachometer, which a lot of people sneer at, but I think I am a little more consistent going that way than playing it by ear.
I make sure the air filter and exhaust are clean, gas up the saw, and let it warm up a few minutes at idle.
Check your saw's specs/manual for proper idle speed and max RPM. Once the saw is warm, set the idle speed to whatever the book says (if you're too lazy to check the book, set it to where it's running fine, lower it until it starts to lub, then bump it up a little from there.)
Now turn the low speed screw rich (ccw for my saws) until it starts to run a little rough. Reverse direction, counting the turns, until it runs well and then rough again. Reverse direction again. And put it in the middle, where it runs the best, maybe a little towards the rich side.
Now go set the idle speed again, same as the first time.
Now hold down the throttle to wide open and adjust the high speed screw. I screw it out (that's rich on both my saws) until it runs a little rough, then turn it lean through max RPM until it slows down a little, and then back it off rich again until it makes that warbly 4-cycle noise. If I'm not in the woods, I use the tachometer to fine tune RPM from there; if I am in the woods I'm done and it works fine.
. If in doubt, leave this screw a little rich. The leaner you run the hotter the saw runs and the less lube it gets. Another way to say this is that you want to find the spot where it goes from nice and smooth to rough from being too rich, and put it right on the edge towards the rich side.Now let it idle again, and see how it goes from idle to full speed. If it doesn't idle smoothly or it stumbles when accelerated, adjust the idle and low speed screws again as above.
Aaand set your idle screw one last time, and you're done forever, or until your saw's environmental temperature, altitude, air filter, or gas changes, or the carb somehow experiences vibrations, whichever comes first.
Edit: Oh, and 'muffler mod' is simpler but you should think about it before jumping in. You're removing the pollution controls in most cases, making the saw louder in all cases, you are voiding any warranty you might have had, and probably breaking some law somewhere. (Transporting dentures across state lines is a federal offense in the US, so I'm sure that tweaking chainsaws probably is too.)
The idea is that the muffler has lots of air restrictions for the catalytic converter and noise control baffles, which are all optional for people who own drills and files. You are going to give the air a more convenient path to get through the muffler can- maybe a little more convenient, maybe a lot. The more you open it up, the louder the saw is going to be and the more potential gains you'll see. I suggest picking a method that allows you to keep the stock spark arrestor.
Maybe you want to leave the cat but drill out the noise baffles, or maybe you want to punch a big hole straight through, or maybe you want to cut the whole can in half and empty it out and weld it together again.
Whatever you do, you'll need to tune the carb when you're done.
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rowerwet
Minister of Fire
I love my 590, I cut over 6 cords of hardwood a year, and it has been my go to saw since I got it. Before that I had a husky 460, which I still own, but the two are no where near equal.
The 460 is a home owner grade saw, built with much more plastic. The 590 is a pro grade saw for a homeowner grade price.
The 460 did the job, but was never a real powerhouse, I'm amazed to see them in stores being sold with a 24" bar, I find the power to be just enough to pull a 20" bar in oak or maple, but without any extra power.
The 590 with a 20" bar blows through big oak so fast I like to call it my laser beam.
I have the timberline sharpener, and it keeps a razor edge on my chains, the 590 just keeps throwing big chips non stop, the 460 just doesn' have the speed in the cut.
I got the 490 for my small saw, the lighter weight is nice, I actually find the 490 can do all that the 590 can, just not quite as fast.
The 460 is a home owner grade saw, built with much more plastic. The 590 is a pro grade saw for a homeowner grade price.
The 460 did the job, but was never a real powerhouse, I'm amazed to see them in stores being sold with a 24" bar, I find the power to be just enough to pull a 20" bar in oak or maple, but without any extra power.
The 590 with a 20" bar blows through big oak so fast I like to call it my laser beam.
I have the timberline sharpener, and it keeps a razor edge on my chains, the 590 just keeps throwing big chips non stop, the 460 just doesn' have the speed in the cut.
I got the 490 for my small saw, the lighter weight is nice, I actually find the 490 can do all that the 590 can, just not quite as fast.
Jon1270
Minister of Fire
Jon1270
Minister of Fire
jetsam
Minister of Fire
Put the modified limiters back on when you're done to keep crud out of the adjustment screws.
You will have to pull them again next time, but it'll be real easy because you cut the tabs off.
Don't turn the adjustment screws all the way in either direction unless the saw doesn't run and you just want to find out where the limits are.
The Echo manual says to turn it all the way because they assume that you can only turn the screws a quarter turn or so, due to the limiter caps. If you actually need to tune the carb, you're supposed to take it to a dealer (who will pull the limiter caps and tune it as above).
You will have to pull them again next time, but it'll be real easy because you cut the tabs off.
Don't turn the adjustment screws all the way in either direction unless the saw doesn't run and you just want to find out where the limits are.
The Echo manual says to turn it all the way because they assume that you can only turn the screws a quarter turn or so, due to the limiter caps. If you actually need to tune the carb, you're supposed to take it to a dealer (who will pull the limiter caps and tune it as above).
jetsam
Minister of Fire
He adjusted the H screw out to the stop on the rich side due to a misunderstanding with the Echo manual.
Something is seriously wrong if the saw runs at that point.
No harm done, though.
Ok but the point where it did run is only about 1/2 turn ccw from the cw stop. So basically if you screw it all the way in then say unscrew it 2turns(ccw) it runs rough then turn it cw to where it cleans up and it's only half turn out. Wouldn't that be too lean?
jatoxico
Minister of Fire
First realize that adjustment may only be 1/8 or 1/4 turn so small changes can be the difference. The low side should be open enough to allow the saw to start, idle and transition crisply to WOT.
The high side only adjusts the saw at WOT and is best adjusted under load IMO. So get it started and running with nominal adjust of 2 turns out on H side. Open until saw runs rough (4 strokes) at WOT then put the saw in some wood and see if runs cleanly. If it still rough turn the high side down a bit. Rinse and repeat. Takes a little playing especially to hear the burble but go ahead and play you won't hurt anything.
One note, don't crank down hard (close) the screws or it could damage the seats. Be gentle,
The high side only adjusts the saw at WOT and is best adjusted under load IMO. So get it started and running with nominal adjust of 2 turns out on H side. Open until saw runs rough (4 strokes) at WOT then put the saw in some wood and see if runs cleanly. If it still rough turn the high side down a bit. Rinse and repeat. Takes a little playing especially to hear the burble but go ahead and play you won't hurt anything.
One note, don't crank down hard (close) the screws or it could damage the seats. Be gentle,
Jon1270
Minister of Fire
Jon1270
Minister of Fire
You're talking apples and oranges here, which is causing confusion. Maybe the answer to this is upthread somewhere, but have you or have you not defeated/removed the limiters? Are you able to turn the H screw through multiple rotations, or only half a turn?
Jon1270
Minister of Fire
He adjusted the H screw out to the stop on the rich side due to a misunderstanding with the Echo manual.
Something is seriously wrong if the saw runs at that point.
If the limiters are still in place then it should run even when it's up against the rich limit; as noted, the range within the limiters is quite small, and never allows it to get very rich.
If the limiters are gone, then there is no stop on the rich side.
The bad part is, you can adjust the carb on a new saw just fine with the limiter caps in place. If you're not entirely familiar with everything, you're better off doing only what the manual says and not what's read on internet forums. This is how some companies (care, trucks, saws) get a bad rap.
Some dude cranks up the boost on their turbo and thinks the it's the manufacturers fault for their head gasket blowing all to hell. Or maybe it doesn't, and it worked for a while, and a bunch of other folks did the same thing to their trucks. After 5 years of running more power than it was designed for, the engine is trashed, and the transmission is in the fritz, so Fords are garbage.
I personally am not modifying any of my saws. I did it to my car, and it was light modifications, but I had to drop a ton of money into a new clutch because it wasn't designed for that.
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Some dude cranks up the boost on their turbo and thinks the it's the manufacturers fault for their head gasket blowing all to hell. Or maybe it doesn't, and it worked for a while, and a bunch of other folks did the same thing to their trucks. After 5 years of running more power than it was designed for, the engine is trashed, and the transmission is in the fritz, so Fords are garbage.
I personally am not modifying any of my saws. I did it to my car, and it was light modifications, but I had to drop a ton of money into a new clutch because it wasn't designed for that.
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