Through-the Wall idea

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JeremiahJohnson

New Member
Oct 15, 2011
6
Northern Middle TN
New to the board but knew i could get plenty of feedback on this.
I do not have an existing chimney and and plan on placing my new Voegelzang wood burner in front of a window and was hoping to, instead of cutting through a combustible wall and usuing a thimble and double or triple wal pipr to actually create a replacement for the windowsashes in the window.
In other words, build an insert out of metal framing and Durock cement board (same materials as suggested for a heat barrier wall) to place in the window opening. Here's a drawing of my idea. See any flaws, suggestions, hazards etc? Let'em fly, I appreciate the feedback.
 

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I suspect that the governing factors here are clearance to combustibles, ie the window frame and the thimble. Were you planning on using a class A thimble? If so I think that needs 9" clearance. I have to admit I'm a little leary of temporary solutions, unless very safe. What is connecting to this on the outside?

Also note that cellulose insulation is not fireproof. Mineral wool like Roxul is.

PS: Welcome aboard.
 
Since you are using an outside chimney, you will need to include the exact chimney parts of the brand you will be using. If a support bracket needs to be attached to your temporary insert, there will be structure considerations and support considerations, i.e. will this temporary method of fastening the insert be strong enough to support a bracket with chimney loads? If you can get away with only brackets above the insert, you should be fine. I see no problem with the design other than what's been mentioned. Once you get below the insert you return to combustible materials so unless you change them, the insert won't really give you a clearance advantage.
 
Thanks for the quick feedback, let me add the ceiling clearance and the actual stove to the scaled drawing and repost so all the details are there as well as the specs on the through-the-wall kit so everyone has the correct info. Awesome feedback though, I knew this would be the place to get some useful constructive critisism!
 
What you've proposed may well work safely...but you've done nothing whatever to reduce the required Clearances To Combustibles (CTC) of the appliance. Don't know whether or not that was one of your goals, I'm just sayin'. That being the case, you could just as well frame it in with wooden studs, insulate it and drywall it. What stove is it? Rick
 
My concern is the "temporary" aspect. What is being used for the connector pipe? What type pipe is being used for the chimney?
 
BeGreen said:
My concern is the "temporary" aspect. What is being used for the connector pipe? What type pipe is being used for the chimney?

Absolutely. Nothing can get around the requirement for a proper transition to Class A chimney at the wall penetration. Rick
 
Thanks guys, hold off a moment and let me show all the components since the only goal here is to avoid cutting and installing into an existing wall, I plan on usuing all proper components as I would otherwise. I post a full drawing and specs showing clearances, materials etc.
 
Welcome to the forum JJ! Interesting question you've posed and the folks that have replied know their stuff.. Never heard of anyone doing what you propose to do but that doesn't mean it can't be done.. Good luck!

Ray
 
I've seen similar construction here in Maine . . . usually with mobile homes where folks don't have the skill set, time, tools or motivation to cut through their trailer . . . some of these installations look fairly safe . . . other ones I figure we will be visting them in a matter of months . . .

Maybe I read things too quickly . . . are you hoping to go through the window due to this being a temporary set up or just to avoid cutting through a wall or c) there is another reason . . . cutting through a wall is actually not all that hard . . . heck, I'm a complete moron and I was able to do so without making the job look like a hack job.
 
Thanks so much for all the feedback and thx for the welcome & support raybonz...

Ok, here are updated drawings, to show my clearance, etc is not an issue or what I'm trying to get feedback on it's basically the materials etc I'm using in my proposed window insert itself.
I changed my insulation to Roxul as suggested (thx, BeGreen).

So everyone has the details on my actual system it's a Vogelzang 106,000 BTU Deluxe Boxwood Stove, Model# BX42E, Pipe/Through the wall system is a Dura-vent, Duraplus through-the-wall kit #9088.

I'm not building a clearance wall nor is the insert designed to be, I'm simply using similar materials to have a safer through-the-wall piece than any actual wall I would be able use in my home.

Perfect placing for me would be in front of this window anyway, so instead of doing some kind of half-a$# plywood combustible junk over the window (which would be entirely out-of-the question) I'm suggesting building this insert to replace the window sashes, i.e; "the winder hole" with something strong, more heat/firesafe, & insulated that is modular and temporary only in the fact that it is not permanent :) In other words, in late spring I'll be removing the insert and replacing the top window sash and put a window A/C unit in the lower window area. I'll have 4 lag bolts interior to remove & 4 exterior to remove.

My proposed insert is metal (steel) framed, faced both sides with Durock, Roxul insulated and I now am securing inside with 2 crossmembers that secure to the framing of the window through the wall (as apposed to the latches I initially proposed). On the outside I will be securing with a 2x12 that will also serve as a strong support for my T support to screw to.

My main concerns..
Could I safely do this with wood framing or should I stick to my metal framing?
Do I need to vent this in any way for any heat build up in the interior of the insert? (I assume not since the Dura-vent system is made for combustible walls anywho)
Do I need to use a different material other than Durock on the exterior?

Updated drawings.....
 

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The biggest issue is the stove. That is not something I would want burning in my house. It is a crudely cast stove, hard to regulate and sometimes dangerous.

What is the reason for the temporary design? That will help me wrap my head around the goal here.
 
It's quite common down here for us to take our stoves out in spring. We only seriously heat about 4 months out of the year. FWIW, your proposed install looks great to me, much better than the vast majority of window installs and even some permanent installs I see routinely in our part of the world. IIRC, the Duravent through wall you're using only needs 2 inches clearance to combustibles, IE wood framing. If that's correct then I'd use the simpler wood for construction. I would make certain the 2X12 support for the through wall kit is VERY well bolted to the house. Vertical runs of triple wall encounter considerable force in windy conditions and I'd want the base to be VERY secure. By very secure I'm talking about more than bolted to a window frame that may not have been very well secured to the adjacent structure to begin with.

Now as to the stove.........you'd be safer/happier with any number of used stoves available on Craigslist than that box stove for about the same money.
 
The framed opening for Duravent 6" would be 12.25" ID square according To Duravent. Note that you can support the pipe above the tee, solidly to the house, for a safer structure. That way the weight is permanently supported.
 

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Stephen in SoKY, relevant and helpful regarding the outer support and you're right about wind considerations, I'm about a 5 min drive from being in southern KY so we're probably dealing with similar weather (depending on how west or east you are) I'm about 12 minutes from Frankiln, KY, 30 min from Bowling Green.

BeGreen, I appreciate your feedback but not really looking for an overall review of my system, again just asking about the materials in the proposed wall insert, why it's temporary is in my last post and Dur-vent instructions actually tell me 14.25" not 12.25" and correct on support above the T, I didn't include that in the drawing because........just looking for feedback on the window insert materials plz.

As far as comments on my stove, I initially searched for used stoves, everyone I checked out #1 was really overpriced for a used stove, #2 was in need of some repair like air gaps & structure cracks, major rust issues, etc, #3 most folks think they have an antique and have to refer to #1 & #2 since they think it's really old and rusty they can price it more than a new stove!

The stove I got had a lot of good reviews relevant to what it is ( http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_346054_346054) definitely not top of the line but within my budget and plan on an upgrade later, maybe when i do i can sell on craigslist as an antique :)

I wish I had found hearth.com before purchasing though, definitely the go to place for sharing info!
 
BeGreen said:
The biggest issue is the stove. That is not something I would want burning in my house. It is a crudely cast stove, hard to regulate and sometimes dangerous.

What is the reason for the temporary design? That will help me wrap my head around the goal here.

+1

Ray
 
for those inquiring "why is it temporary"..

"Perfect placing for me would be in front of this window .." & "in late spring I’ll be removing the insert and replacing the top window sash and put a window A/C unit in the lower window area"
 
AC is what I thought might be going in there. Note you can also use fiberglass for insulation. The wood is the nearest combustible.

Duravent 6" is 12.25" clear in their thimble table. 14.5" is for 8" pipe. But there's no harm is going larger.

About the stove. The concern is safety. we see this stove pop up pretty often on craigslist, burned out and overfired. Be safe and attentive running it. They have a tendency to get out of control quickly and some leak badly. FWIW, I've always felt NTool's reviews were heavily filtered.
 

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JJ, I'm in BG, well 7 miles north of it. Sorry about the 2" clearance mistake, the last one I installed used a ceiling support box rather than a through wall.
 
I agree with begreen here. First no way that or any boxwood stove pumps out 100k, and trust me i love that style of stove. And a voglezang is very accuratly put crude. I had one got rid of it and found a deal on craigslist, takes a little bit of time though.

I dont dislike the idea, but even if your "plug" is overbuilt and safer than a standard thimble, you still have the problem of structure. Windows are built to be supportive for an opening. So theres structure, and i see you have a planned chimney. Id be nervous of how you attach, lags may not be enough. Sealing the plug? Last thing youd want is due to wind, heating cooling cycles and it falls out, or just moves enough to dislodge the interior or exterior pipe. Then no matter how well built the plug is you have a problem.

I do like innovation and the thought however, just dont know how temporary and safe it could be.

Good luck.
 
JJ, are you using DuraPlus HTC pipe? I was splitting outside and noting that you are trying to pay attention to details got me wondering why the 14.5". Then I thought maybe this is DuraPlus HTC and not DuraTech HT pipe? If it is DuraPlus, you are correct, that would need 14.5" clearance for 6" pipe. DuraVent is the company name, DuraPlus and DuraTech are the class A product lines.
 
I had the same setup you are planning for a few years before the wife gave in and let me do a permanent install through the roof (and get an EPA stove). My construction was a bit different than your proposed plan though. The only issue I had was the STOVE. A US Stove boxwood. Very primitive and, yes dangerous IMHO. Nice to be able to remove the whole deal for the summer, but now that I have a good stove that serves us safely and reliably, It would be like chucking a family member out to the garage for the summer.
 
I belive what you are suggesting to do would work well. However I really do not belive the insurance company would allow a tempoary set up, espically since this is not an epa approved stove.

Be careful with that stove and if possble overdo the clearance to combustables.
 
SKIN052 said:
Found some grat reviews on another site, "if your stove gets to hot and no fiberglass rope is available place 2 large separate pans of cold water on top of the stove this will almost immediately bring the temperature down "

http://www.wiseheat.com/reviews/7621/Vogelzang-Deluxe-Boxwood-BX42E

Yeah after reading those reviews I am convinced they are downright dangerous.. Would want one even if free..

Ray
 
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