Ticks ( any suggestions)

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Here's where I ordered Permethrin on line. I bought the 8 oz. size. Very reasonable price and shipping. That one bottle would dilute down to about 160 oz of spray, and it would take me a long time to use that much. (Make smaller batches) The bottle has a built in measuring reservoir like the bottles of 2-cycle oil additive do. Easy. Get an old empty spray bottle and go to town.

Permethrin



BK- So glad to hear your symptoms are at least abating. Doxycycline is good stuff. I think it is a good idea for most every person who works outdoors to get their Doc to write them a prescription for one course of Doxycycline (usually 14-20 doses) to keep on hand. Easier said than done, but can be done. The Docs are very gun shy of potential liabilities in prescribing prophylactically for currently non- existent conditions. Speed is of the essence with Lyme, it appears. No time to wait to see a doctor. Most folks should be able to safely take Doxycycline (but be sure!). So far as I understand, Doxycycline or Cipro would be your best bet against Lyme. I think Cipro is a lot more expensive(?)

The medical field is a bloodly mess. Personally, I shun orthodoxy, as I feel that 'medicine' has been overrun by a bunch of lawsuit averse, money grubbing folks- the very worst of them being the unholy insurers , probably one of the worst parasites mankind currently suffers under. But OTOH there are indeed nests of pseudo- natural 'healers' as well, so caveat emptor ("let the buyer beware!"). I do believe that for most things, finding one of the rare, truly good natural healers is your best bet. OTOH if I ever suffer serious physical injuries, I won't hesitate to get myself to a good, reputable emergency room at a local hospital. Orthopedic physicians have a pretty good track record of healing broken bones, for example. Not to disparage faith healers, mind you, but I believe the physicians have an edge here. I believe that emergency medicine is where that field still shines- or at least still earns its keep.

That being said, the orthodox medical field is awash with quacks IMO. Particularly noteworthy is the field of conventional oncology. What a mess! They will never find a cure for cancer because they are not really looking. That field is largely self- deluded IMO. Take the time to truly research the shabby state of affairs in 'cancer research' before you jump down my throat. After years of 'research', they continue to try to overcome cancer by burning it out, cutting it out, or poisoning it out. And that doesn't work for a vast majority of cases because they are only treating symptoms and not going after the root causes. Their cure rates are abysmal. Fact is, that is a very profitable field right now- for all but the stricken. And they want to keep it that way. It breaks my heart to see all those women 'marching for the cure' every year. Their hard- earned funds will likely be squandered by folks who profit more from the status quo and have little actual financial interest in any real 'cures'. BTW the real 'cure' is prevention, and that comes from health. Sadly most people haven't a clue what a healthy diet or lifestyle really is- but they think they do. It's a bit complicated when the world is awash in lies and misinformation, and the food supply is mostly not sufficient to sustain health. So much bad food!

I believe that those entering the physician training mills truly mean well and have honorable intentions. Before long, most of them that survive are reduced to little more than pharmaceutical gateways. See the ads on TV, with big pharma marketing directly to their potential patients, for ample proof of that. The patient arrives with a script about how to discuss their 'self-diagnosis' with their doc. Poor Doc becomes little more than a high- priced ticket puncher at that point. Few of them dare take back the power they long ago ceded to big pharma. To question orthodoxy is to put your license and practice at risk. "Shut up and keep paddling, Doctor".

Probably Lyme is an 'orphan' disease because there is not enough money to be made. But by practicing misdirection (misdiagnosis) one can happily treat the wrong disease for years, and it's covered under insurance that way. My own trust of much of conventional Western medicine ('allopathic' medicine) has become badly eroded. You appear to be learning the same truth- that there is no substitute for doing your own research, questioning authority, and being open to alternative ideas. "The truth is out there"- it's just buried under many layers of lies, deception, and misinformation. But it really is out there. Ask questions!
 
I got bit by a wood tick a couple weeks ago... first time I can remember ever getting bit by a tick... luckily the bastard hadn't started drinking blood yet when I found him (which was about 6 or so hours after I think he first bit me)... they (as well as dog ticks) supposedly aren't the greatest transporters of Lyme disease, however, they do tend to carry Rock Mountain Spotted Fever- a rarer, but much more dangerous disease than Lyme, with it being fatal in about 5% of cases (used to be 30% back in the '40's before modern antibiotics came out)... wikipedia says ticks generally can't spread the fever unless they've been attached for at least 24 hrs. (luckily, mine had only been attached for maybe 1/4 of that).
 
zapny said:
Battenkiller said:
zapny said:

Zap, that looks like good stuff. Supposed to last six weeks, even through weekly washings. I'll have to pick up a bottle.



Battenkiller, hope your feeling better. Are you still heading to Tupper Lake next weekend?

Geez, I totally forgot about that. Anybody else coming? Will we be able to run some saws there?

I guess I might be able to come, I'm feeling a lot better than I was just a few days ago. Can't spend any time in the sun because of the antibiotics I'm still on, though. Anyway, PM me the details if you get a chance.
 
Battenkiller said:
PeteD said:
I empathize with your plight, but I disagree strongly with your characterization of these doctors as jerks and quacks with such a broad brush. Many of these doctors are very good and do not take insurance because it is the insurance companies that helped to initiate the lawsuits to have licenses pulled for treatments that they do not want to pay for, because the CDC does not deem the treatment appropriate. The CDC says two weeks of oral antibiotics and you are cured. That is BS if you have had Lyme for years. I know someone who went to one of the doctors in the film after conventional treatments failed (and payed from their own pocket). After conventional treatment with antibiotics failed, they were diagnosed with MS (in fact were already taking daily steroid injections to treat MS). After long-term (6-months) treatment with IV antibiotics, they are now asymptomatic.

Keep in mind that most cutting edge doctors and scientists in history have been called quacks in the beginning for disagreeing with the conventional wisdom.

Also, this "cult" would not have developed if the CDC would open their eyes to the possibility that Lyme can't always be cured with 2 weeks of oral antibiotics. Are there people who do not have Lyme chasing LLMD in hopes of solving another medical problem that medicine can't resolve? I am certain that is the case. But that doesn't help people who do have Lyme but do not deserve further treatment according to the CDC.

BTW, Cure Unknown is a better choice than the movie, IMO.

Pete,

Maybe I should not have worded my post quite that way. What I meant is that many of these docs are exploiting the situation for their own gain, not all or maybe not even most. The insurance thing...? Well, all I can say is the big name Lyme doc in my area wants $1000 from you just to walk through his door. Even a Lyme-friendly insurance company would never pay that kind of dough for a consult, or for any kind of consult I can think of in any specialty. The world-class eye trauma surgeon that restored the sight in my right eye three years ago gave me a free initial consult, and then went out of his way to accept my insurance, even though he was down in Philly and way out of our network. He felt bad that I had to go all the way to Philly to find a doc that could do the operation. I paid a total of $175 for a $12,000 operation. How much he got from my insurance I'll never know, but I am pretty sure it was well short of $12K. When I went for my follow up the next day, he told me that as far as that eye was concerned, I was his patient for life.

Six months later I went back down because I was having a very serious problem in the same eye. He made room for me in his busy surgical schedule, I was examined, diagnosed, given sample medications and scripts for three months and I never even saw a bill. Similar compassion is sorely lacking everywhere I look in Lyme treatment. I have been repeatedly told that the waiting list to see Dr. "X" is 12 months, at which point BTW I will be very, very ill if they are correct, and will therefore actually require their treatment for chronic Lyme. Not one of them made a referral to another Lyme doc, or even hinted that there was anyone else. Even a local nurse practitioner wants almost $400 for the initial Lyme visit (again, no insurance)... and that doesn't even include testing. How is it that an NP gets to charge that kind of money for a Lyme consult when a cardiologist with 30 years experience doesn't?

I have been spending a lot of time on a few of the Lyme support forums, and some of the things I read that people are being advised to do makes my jaw drop. There are people who have been treated for years on high-dose IV drugs (delivered via central catheters because of their caustic nature), for symptoms that have never actually been observed by the physician and have been only anecdotally described by the patient. As their conditions continue to worsen, they are being advised to step up the treatments rather than to seek other possible explanations for their sickness. There are doctors out there ascribing virtually every disease known to mankind to untraceable tick-borne infections, totally disregarding the well-known and long-accepted epidemiology of these diseases (i.e. ALS being described to patients as actually being Lyme, even though the incidence of Lyme is growing exponentially while the incidence of ALS has been at a constant for nearly fifty years).

Even some of the best intentioned Lyme docs are forced to shoot in the dark a lot of the time, trying one treatment regimen after another based strictly on observation and intuition. This is medieval medicine, not cutting edge science. No, it is not entirely their fault. It is the politics of medicine, and the megalomania of guys like Steere who just can't admit they got it so wrong 30 years ago. IMO the most telling problem in this whole fiasco was covered in the movie by a comment from Willy Burgdorfer, the discoverer of the borrelia spirochete that bears his name:

"The [research] money goes to the same people who have, for the last 30 years, produced the same thing... nothing."

This was why I left medical research after a very short time period in the field. It was immediately obvious to me that there was plenty of money being spent on research, but nothing close to cures being delivered. The same pointless projects were being funded over and over again while much more promising work was routinely being denied. The biggest egos made the biggest sounds and got the biggest share of the pie. I worked for just such a megalomaniac, so I have a clue about the whole issue.


BTW, I found a copy of the book "Cure Unknown" at my local library and have reserved it for tomorrow.

Well said. It really is a scary mess (the whole situation).
 
trailmaker said:
All this thinking about ticks has given me a crazy idea. I wonder if you could trap a bunch of deer and rabbits and dose the heck out of them with Permethrin or Frontline or something else that kills ticks, then let them loose as mobile tick executioners. Maybe you could even rig some kind of applicator next to a salt lick or water dispenser where the deer get a couple of drops of Frontline on them as they drink or lick the salt.

Here is another similar angle, permethrin-treated cotton in tubes to turn mice into little tick-killing machines. Not cheap, though.
http://www.ticktubes.com/press.html
 
Cluttermagnet said:
I think it is a good idea for most every person who works outdoors to get their Doc to write them a prescription for one course of Doxycycline (usually 14-20 doses) to keep on hand. Easier said than done, but can be done. The Docs are very gun shy of potential liabilities in prescribing prophylactically for currently non- existent conditions. Speed is of the essence with Lyme, it appears. No time to wait to see a doctor. Most folks should be able to safely take Doxycycline (but be sure!). So far as I understand, Doxycycline or Cipro would be your best bet against Lyme. I think Cipro is a lot more expensive(?)

The medical field is a bloodly mess. Personally, I shun orthodoxy, as I feel that 'medicine' has been overrun by a bunch of lawsuit averse, money grubbing folks- the very worst of them being the unholy insurers , probably one of the worst parasites mankind currently suffers under. But OTOH there are indeed nests of pseudo- natural 'healers' as well, so caveat emptor ("let the buyer beware!"). I do believe that for most things, finding one of the rare, truly good natural healers is your best bet. OTOH if I ever suffer serious physical injuries, I won't hesitate to get myself to a good, reputable emergency room at a local hospital. Orthopedic physicians have a pretty good track record of healing broken bones, for example. Not to disparage faith healers, mind you, but I believe the physicians have an edge here. I believe that emergency medicine is where that field still shines- or at least still earns its keep.

That being said, the orthodox medical field is awash with quacks IMO. Particularly noteworthy is the field of conventional oncology. What a mess! They will never find a cure for cancer because they are not really looking. That field is largely self- deluded IMO. Take the time to truly research the shabby state of affairs in 'cancer research' before you jump down my throat. After years of 'research', they continue to try to overcome cancer by burning it out, cutting it out, or poisoning it out. And that doesn't work for a vast majority of cases because they are only treating symptoms and not going after the root causes. Their cure rates are abysmal. Fact is, that is a very profitable field right now- for all but the stricken. And they want to keep it that way. It breaks my heart to see all those women 'marching for the cure' every year. Their hard- earned funds will likely be squandered by folks who profit more from the status quo and have little actual financial interest in any real 'cures'. BTW the real 'cure' is prevention, and that comes from health. Sadly most people haven't a clue what a healthy diet or lifestyle really is- but they think they do. It's a bit complicated when the world is awash in lies and misinformation, and the food supply is mostly not sufficient to sustain health. So much bad food!

I believe that those entering the physician training mills truly mean well and have honorable intentions. Before long, most of them that survive are reduced to little more than pharmaceutical gateways. See the ads on TV, with big pharma marketing directly to their potential patients, for ample proof of that. The patient arrives with a script about how to discuss their 'self-diagnosis' with their doc. Poor Doc becomes little more than a high- priced ticket puncher at that point. Few of them dare take back the power they long ago ceded to big pharma. To question orthodoxy is to put your license and practice at risk. "Shut up and keep paddling, Doctor".

Probably Lyme is an 'orphan' disease because there is not enough money to be made. But by practicing misdirection (misdiagnosis) one can happily treat the wrong disease for years, and it's covered under insurance that way. My own trust of much of conventional Western medicine ('allopathic' medicine) has become badly eroded. You appear to be learning the same truth- that there is no substitute for doing your own research, questioning authority, and being open to alternative ideas. "The truth is out there"- it's just buried under many layers of lies, deception, and misinformation. But it really is out there. Ask questions!

Excellent post, CM! I agree with most all that you say. I stood by and watched helplessly as both my parents were tortured until they finally succumbed to their incurable ailments. You and I and millions of others picked up the Medicare tab for their useless treatments - hundreds of thousands of dollars - only to have them finally die in pain, and without a shred of dignity left.

I personally wouldn't go so far as to say that all of the conventional docs are quacks, but certainly, the field itself is run by the liars and charlatans who make policy at the very top of the medical food chain.

As far as the best meds for Lyme, I believe that doxycycline and other tetracyclines are the best of the recommended ones. You have to be careful not to hold them too long, though. Long-expired tetracyclines eventually degrade into neurotoxic substances that can mess you up. If you are hanging onto some for immediate prophylactic measures after a tick bite, get a new script every year if possible, the stuff is certainly cheap enough. AFAIK Cipro and other fluoroquinolones are not effective against Lyme, plus, they are increasingly being found to create disastrous side effects in some individuals. Doxy is the best because it also kills some other tick-borne pathogens that might be transmitted at the same time.
 
BK, Sorry for your illness. Hope you have a quick and complete recovery.

Thank you for the effort put into this thread. The posts motivated me to learn more about ticks, order some permethrin, and get some tick removal tools for the family. Thanks again.
 
Thanks, BK. Yeah, I got a little carried away myself. I'll let stand what I said, but would just like to add that I do believe there are still some good, ethical, effective healers within that field, but they are being marginalized by big pharma and big insurance to the point where it's essentially a crap shoot these days. Some patients get good help, some get needlessly injured or even killed by this berserk medical industry. I can speak from personal experience in this area- I lost two family members needlessly to 'modern medicine' in the past decade.

Thanks for the reminder about tetracycline shelf life. It can be hard to get this simple, life saving medicine- unless you can present with some sort of 'illness'. Think about that- disadvantaged by being healthy. That's a laugh. I suppose you compensate by becoming a good actor/liar? The docs are so worried about getting sued. I need to refresh my small supply and toss the older stuff I have. BTW I stay away from all 'medicines' of any sort to the greatest extent possible.


Battenkiller said:
Excellent post, CM! I agree with most all that you say. I stood by and watched helplessly as both my parents were tortured until they finally succumbed to their incurable ailments. You and I and millions of others picked up the Medicare tab for their useless treatments - hundreds of thousands of dollars - only to have them finally die in pain, and without a shred of dignity left.

I personally wouldn't go so far as to say that all of the conventional docs are quacks, but certainly, the field itself is run by the liars and charlatans who make policy at the very top of the medical food chain.

As far as the best meds for Lyme, I believe that doxycycline and other tetracyclines are the best of the recommended ones. You have to be careful not to hold them too long, though. Long-expired tetracyclines eventually degrade into neurotoxic substances that can mess you up. If you are hanging onto some for immediate prophylactic measures after a tick bite, get a new script every year if possible, the stuff is certainly cheap enough. AFAIK Cipro and other fluoroquinolones are not effective against Lyme, plus, they are increasingly being found to create disastrous side effects in some individuals. Doxy is the best because it also kills some other tick-borne pathogens that might be transmitted at the same time.
 
Anyone else out there besides me suddenly find themselves scratching themselves and wondering if that itch is just an itch or a tick moving about?
 
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