Tonight, I miss my old stove..(BKK questions)

[Beetle-Kill]

Currently, 12 hours is the limit. It's 7.1 and dropping, and inside it's 68.6 and slooowly climbing. T-stat is at 2.5 or else I'll max the cat, it's @ 1650 and stable with an hour and a half fresh load burning right now. if it was blowing, forget it, I went through that a few days ago. I'm sure my isulation issues, and air infiltration a major factors. The old stove was good for 8-10 hours in nasty weather, up to 12 when it didn't get below 20 at night. The old stove, if I really needed the heat, would perform. The BKK seems like it has a heat "govenor" on it- not enough of "this"and this suffers, too much of "that" and that suffers. You should get a flue probe, just to see what is actually going up the stack.

 

[ecocavalier02]

Just got back from looking at an overfired Jotul- the search continues. Thanks S&W, pretty sure you're correct about the marketing display. Eco- my probe is 19.5" above stove top, still reading higher than stovetop, but the front room is warming up (as are the outside temps.) Rich- I'll talk to BK tomorrow, see if they can provide some input- at least theyll be aware of this situation. Mcbride- thanks for the dealer info. The place I got my stove from won't be any help, they're just a plumbing and heating shop. I'll let this thread die, when I have anything new to add I'll post an update. Thanks all for the input, and listening to me whine. JB

you say your usinga prob thermometer at 19.5 up running the stove on high my guess would be that it would read higher than the stove. mines 30 inches up with a magnetic one and it reads 300 to 325 and thats on double wall but like i said its on the 45 which is thinner than the straight pipe but still. internal prob meter with stove on high i would think would probably read aroud 800 or higher? whats the temp your getting?

 

[BrotherBart]

If it wasn't for North of 60 heating the whole place up in the Yukon with his BK I would say that this is what I expected to happen. BK prides themselves and advertises on the low and slow side of the equation. I have been waiting to see what happens when it is kick ass and heat this cold joint time. But still, N of 60 seems to be able to get the heat out of the thing so it puzzles me.

 

[ecocavalier02]

If it wasn't for North of 60 heating the whole place up in the Yukon with his BK I would say that this is what I expected to happen. BK prides themselves and advertises on the low and slow side of the equation. I have been waiting to see what happens when it is kick ass and heat this cold joint time. But still, N of 60 seems to be able to get the heat out of the thing so it puzzles me.

havent had any trouble heating myy house yet when its cold and blowing

 

[SolarAndWood]

The 2.5 and maxing the cat is puzzling. And, when the cat is that hot with the blowers going there should be some heat coming off that stove.

 

[North of 60]

You mention wind chill. Wind chill should only affect a living body. You say its blowing out and it affects your inside house temp.
Time to deal with some insulating and sealing issues. Time to put your old stove back in. When your house is sealed up, then you can take advantage of the BK and its design. I think your asking for too much from this type of stove with the size and situation your home is in. IMHO.

 

[ecocavalier02]

+1 puzzling is right i cant even close to the stove when its on 2.5. my stove top will read close to 700 with fan on high on 2.5. on 3 it'll creep its way up to 800. thats why i dont understand how he's not gettin substantial heat.

 

[ecocavalier02]

You mention wind chill. Wind chill should only affect a living body. You say its blowing out and it affects your inside house temp.
Time to deal with some insulating and sealing issues. Time to put your old stove back in. When your house is sealed up, then you can take advantage of the BK and its design. I think your asking for too much from this type of stove with the size and situation your home is in. IMHO.

interesting point ya make there.

 

[Todd]

What about your thermometer? It could be reading high, I don't think they are the most accurate. Maybe try a cheap external thermometer on top of the stove right next to the cat probe? Internal temps should read about double the external, maybe a little higher as temps climb but if you see something like a 500 stove top and a 2000 cat I'm betting the cat probe is off.

Did you check your cat to make sure it was seated properly in place?

 

[SolarAndWood]

BK prides themselves and advertises on the low and slow side of the equation. I have been waiting to see what happens when it is kick ass and heat this cold joint time.

I burn 100 pound loads in 12 hour cycles continuously when its cold and/or blowing. That is probably 6 times the rate I burn at continuously in moderate temperatures.

 

[Beetle-Kill]

Slow down fellas, I've only got one finger. :cheese: Eco- yup, I can hit 800 internal if I'm not careful. Exterior is cool enough to not get burned if I touch it quickly. BB- Seems that up North, they have different building codes. Levels or scales, I forget. Our counter girl is from Alaska and looking to move back. She talks about a level 3-5 insulation being required, for certain construction years, higher being better but more costly. With a tight house and better insulation, I would've had no reason to post. Doesn't surprise me that the Blaze Kings work for people in tight homes. S&W- I'm not writing this stove off, it's helping to point out all the areas I need to address in this house. When I get it sealed up, I'll probably be bragging on it. But until I do, I'd gladly burn more wood in the Timberline, and be a whole lot warmer.

 

[Beetle-Kill]

real quick- N-of-60 pretty much nailed it as far as I'm thinking.

 

[ecocavalier02]

800 internal is not overfiring. thats normal. you say if not carefull. but i dont think theres n e thing wrong with that. mines reading 325 30 inches up im pretty darn sure that inside temp is around that. why do you think that is bad when your running full blown on 2.5 or 3.

 

[SolarAndWood]

I think Todd is probably right with the cat thermometer. Seems to be the most reasonable explanation for the tstat position/burn times/stove top thermometer read/cat thermometer read/lack of heat combo. It would also explain why the stove doesn't stink when it appears you are maxing out the cat. Mine does whenever I get even close.

 

[SolarAndWood]

real quick- N-of-60 pretty much nailed it as far as I'm thinking.

That is a different problem though, one which I currently share with you. That aside, you shouldn't have a 500 degree stove top and a maxed out cat.

 

[Beetle-Kill]

Eco- when I start to hit that flue temp., the Cat is almost maxed. With the old stove, I would level it out at 900, with dbl. wall DVL. Supposed to go 1000 continuous, so I tried to keep it below that. Now, if I'm pushing 800, I'm getting ready to max. the Cat, and pushing too much air through it.

 

[SolarAndWood]

Rereading your earlier posts, you said that turning on the blowers is the only way to not max out the cat? If I am running steady state with the blowers wide open, I can turn them off. The cat bumps up initially but the tstat brings it right back down to the same point as before I turned the blowers off within 30-40 seconds. Does your stove not do that?

 

[Beetle-Kill]

Getting confusing isn't it. Me too. I have to run the blower for anything above about 2.25. It may be on low, but without the air flow, the Cat will want to max out. I'm going to have to chart this for a few days, but itll be boring as hell. If you want, I do have a couple days worth of notes I did about 2-weeks ago. PM me, I don't want to kill the masses with boredom (anymore than I have already) Seriously, I noted some of these temp. swings for a number of days( when I was home), and have about half a dozen pages of "stuff". And now its colder, and things are different. Go figure.

 

[learnin to burn]

B-K = I know you wanted to jump out but I have a few questions for you.

1) Do you have a metal cat or ceramic? - The ceramic allows the stove to draft better when the bypass is closed so a damper might be in order. (More draft = more heat up the chimney) The Ceramic will withstand higher temps according to BK.

2A) With the stove on high burn (2.5 - 3) and the fans on, touch the back of the fans. Are they hot, warm, or cold?

2B) Same thing with the air inlet (should be hot enough to burn you so be careful!) Hot, warm, or cold?

3) Do you have an outside air kit or are you drawing room air?

4) I see you have been burning E/W are you able to burn N/S? If you can, try that and load the sucker to the hilt. I've burned E/W and found the stove temps to be 150 to 250 degrees lower.

5) Was it you or some one else who has already replaced there thermostat?

Put the BK cat thermometer back in and let the Condor cool down to room temp. See if it is calibrated correctly.
I'll have a few more for you after these are answered.

 

[bogydave]

I'm heating a 2200 sq foot house with a BK cat model similar to yours but
regular base model.
I had issues with cold spots in the house when the wind blew above 30 knots on the sub zero days, but last year
I taped/sealed the outlets/light switches on outside walls (I could feel cold air blowing in). caulked/sealed the windows. New door seals.
added attic insulation (all tax rebate stuff last year)
Just went thru 4 days -4°f with 50 knot winds 2 weeks ago, house stayed in the 70s.

I use a box fan to move the air around (up out of the basement where the stove is) on those days but not as often now.
The house is tighter now, but not too tight , still enough air leaks for the stove to burn well.

I don't think the new model BK fans, even on high, move the air around all that well.

Now I'm overheating the house, 45° & windy. Learning to heat at warmer temps is my problem with the
BK king model the past few days.

Even when I'm burning on 2.5, I can almost lay my hand on the pipe out of the stove.
Maybe your cat is leaking by or something is wrong in that area. The honey comb cat is glowing red when I'm running that
high & still the stack temp is just a little hot to hold my hand on, no where near the stack temps you have.

Good luck.

 

[Beetle-Kill]

Learnin- I'm toast, so I'll be brief. Cat is stock, so I'm guessing ceramic. 2A- (stove at 460, cat @1360) fan shroud is not more that warm, middle or top- but warmer at top.2B-Air in-let on fans? Cool/cold. T-stat (bottom of verticle housing is cool, top plate is hot enough, but not enough to make your fingers melt.) ""3- No OAK. 4- I burn N/S when the splits allow, haven't really noticed any true difference. I get the "Hot horseshoe", but the side chunks still hang out until I rake 'em forward.5- I replaced the stock Cat. probe with a Condar numbered probe. I went with the 1.75" probe. Stock was 2" I think. Thanks for your interest, I'll check in tomorrow. JB

 

[Beetle-Kill]

BogyDave- that's good info. on doing the sealing. If it's cool with you, can I PM you to see what you did, and how you went about it? Thanks, JB

 

[learnin to burn]

Learnin- I'm toast, so I'll be brief. Cat is stock, so I'm guessing ceramic. 2A- (stove at 460, cat @1360) fan shroud is not more that warm, middle or top- but warmer at top.2B-Air in-let on fans? Cool/cold. T-stat (bottom of verticle housing is cool, top plate is hot enough, but not enough to make your fingers melt.) ""3- No OAK. 4- I burn N/S when the splits allow, haven't really noticed any true difference. I get the "Hot horseshoe", but the side chunks still hang out until I rake 'em forward.5- I replaced the stock Cat. probe with a Condar numbered probe. I went with the 1.75" probe. Stock was 2" I think. Thanks for your interest, I'll check in tomorrow. JB

I understand the toast, I'll be that way tonight when I get home from Mass. The cat can be either Metal or ceramic. My stove came with a metal cat. I replaced it for free on BK's dime due to a failure (Gasket failed and cat warped). I received a ceramic replacement. (FYI - Federal Law states that if the cat fails for -ANY- reason within 2 years it must be replaced for -FREE-. After 2 years there is a prorated charge.) I'm guessing you haven't checked the cat at all so take a peek. You can see it through the flame shield. If it is ceramic you will see square holes in it, Metal it will look like a radiator.

2b. was t-stat air inlet.

I've got to get to work, Will finish responding to this later.

 

[Renovation]

Even when I'm burning on 2.5, I can almost lay my hand on the pipe out of the stove.
Maybe your cat is leaking by or something is wrong in that area. The honey comb cat is glowing red when I'm running that
high & still the stack temp is just a little hot to hold my hand on, no where near the stack temps you have.

Good luck.

I keep coming back to this--it just seems his flue temps are too hot, and he's been reporting this for a while. Other folks are getting plenty of heat, with low flue temps.

Thanks Dave. You sound knowledgeable, and this problem can use it. I'd hope you and the manufacturer can help troubleshoot this.

 

[Peter B.]

Beetle-Kill:

I would strongly advise you to compare readings between the cat probe thermometer as supplied by BK and the Condar you replaced it with. Both units may very well be made by Condar, but in another thread (last year) it was (more or less) established that the recent crop of Condar therms tended to read high... by as much as 200-400 degrees. It's definitely worth a comparison test. The cat may very well _NOT_ be stressed by the (bogus ?) temps you're seeing.

Also, there's another thread here on Hearth.com about the BK thermostat being faulty... rare, but not out of the question.

By most accounts from other BK owners, you should be doing a lot 'better'.

Hope you get things straightened away.

PB

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