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  1. Missouri Frontier

    Missouri Frontier Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    273
    Loc:
    NW Missouri BFE north of KC
    I'm building a pole barn home in north western Missouri. The building is being closed cell spray foam insulated. On top of the spray foam the residence will will have r19 bat in the walls and r23 in the 8 foot ceiling. Finished square feet will be 1200. The stove I get will be the primary heat source. My wife is the most cold averse person I've ever known and won't be happy unless the temperature in the place is 75 even if it's 10 below outside. I have been looking at the englander 30 nch. From what I've been reading it seems that stove may be over kill. Log burn times are important to me. Will you folks give me your thoughts? If this stove is indeed too much can you make any suggestions of stoves in the same neighborhood price wise that would fit my situation better? Thanks ahead of time for any help.

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  2. Huntindog1

    Huntindog1 Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2011
    Messages:
    1,472
    Loc:
    South Central Indiana
    For 1200 Square feet the NC-30 should do you good as its rated for much more than 1200 square foot.

    With big chunks of seasoned dry wood 12 hour burns should be easy.
  3. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
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    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    It could be overkill, especially in milder weather. What will be important is the floor. Will this be a poured slab or ?? Also, will there be a backup source of heat? For comfort I would consider installing a mini-split heat pump. It will handle a lot of the load and will provide cooling in the summer. Then, if the floor is insulated, you can drop down a size to a good 2 cu ft stove like the PE Super 27, Napoleon 1450, Lopi Endeavor, etc.
  4. Hiram Maxim

    Hiram Maxim Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2007
    Messages:
    1,055
    Loc:
    SE Michigan
    Welcome!



    How much spray foam are you using?

    What will Your overall R-Factor in the walls?

    Why so little insulation in Your ceiling?That's where you need the most......;)


    Sense Your West of the Mississippi River You might look at a Blaze King Princess?

    Cheers Hiram:)
  5. Missouri Frontier

    Missouri Frontier Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    273
    Loc:
    NW Missouri BFE north of KC
    Thanks begreen. I'll be using a couple small electric heaters in the bedrooms for back up(the wood cabinet style). I'd like to keep it warm enough to keep them from coming on. The foundation is poured slab. As to floor insulation, the bedrooms and living rooms will be carpeted with a top drawer pad and the kitchen and bathrooms will be tiled. No other floor insulation to speak of. At least not in the plan at this point. I will be installing a mini split system next winter. Mostly for summer A/C use. My property has a nearly endless supply of of hardwood, Hedge, hickory, oak. I intended to avoid paying the LP or electic company for something I can produce with elbow grease. I looked at the super 27. Nice stove. The old timers around here seem to think that PE's burn time claim is bogus because of its fire box size. I'm aware the old timers aren't always right. Especially, when it comes to new tech.
  6. Missouri Frontier

    Missouri Frontier Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    273
    Loc:
    NW Missouri BFE north of KC
    Thanks Hiram. Between spray and bat, the wall R value R32 and the ceiling will be R36. Thanks for the BK princess recommendation. Hadn't considered that one. I'm sure this is a dumb question, but, what does being west of the Mississippi have to do with Blaze King as an option?
  7. Missouri Frontier

    Missouri Frontier Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    273
    Loc:
    NW Missouri BFE north of KC
    Thanks for the info hunting dog. That burn time sounds good. I work nights and my wife isn't much of a harth tender. I'm out of the house 13 hours a day for work, so it would be great to be in the position to have a 250F box with good coals when I get home.
  8. PapaDave

    PapaDave Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2008
    Messages:
    5,740
    Loc:
    Northern MI - in the mitten
    Do yourself a major favor and insulate before you pour the slab. Minimal expense (comparatively) and major payback in comfort, not to mention less energy use and moisture intrusion. Warmer in winter/ cooler in summer w/o the need for the big expense of air conditioning in whatever form you use. Think long term on this one...you'll thank us later.:cool:
    I neglected to insulate the slab in my polebarn (shop) and could kick myself now.:mad:
    The oldtimers may know old stoves, but they're wrong on the new ones.
    Hiram is correct......insulate the crap out of the ceiling/attic.
    You may have to invest in some candles to heat the place, instead of a stove.;)
    ETA: I type too slow.
  9. Missouri Frontier

    Missouri Frontier Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    273
    Loc:
    NW Missouri BFE north of KC
    Lol at candles Dave. Unfortunately, pole barn is exsisting structure on the property. We are living in a tiny trailer while we are building into the pole barn. Will take the ceiling advice to heart and will look in my pockets for more cash.
  10. PapaDave

    PapaDave Minister of Fire

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    If you'll have easy access to the attic space in the future, skimp a bit there, but do the floor insulating.
    You'll never be able to get back to that once it's poured......or is it already?
  11. daleeper

    daleeper Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2006
    Messages:
    519
    Loc:
    NC MO
    Welcome to the forum!

    Get one of the Blaze King cat stoves that fits your decor and get to cutting and splitting wood. They need dry wood to work best. You probably don't need the King size stove, but don't go too small, as that floor will be cold and hard to keep warm. Check the BK website for dealers, there is one in Kansas City, St. Louis, and one in Bloomfield Iowa, I don't know that any of them keep many on hand. They can't be beat for low slow burning, and will keep that barn toasty all night long.

    When looking for the mini-split system, consider a heat pump mini-split, as they would work well for the shoulder season when you need a little heat, but don't need the stove running.

    Bang for the buck it is tough to argue against the englander stoves though.
  12. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    South Puget Sound, WA
    Don't get the wood box cabinet heaters. They don't heat any better than any other electric heater. Use an electric baseboard or oil filled electric radiators at 1/4 the cost.

    A good mini-split will cover this space well down to about 0 degrees. Definitely invest in sub-floor insulation. Raw concrete even with carpet on it can suck the warmth right out of your feet. The Super 27/Spectrum has one of the longest burn times of any non-cat that I have come across.
  13. Missouri Frontier

    Missouri Frontier Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    273
    Loc:
    NW Missouri BFE north of KC
    Thanks for all the info folks. I came on here thinking I had a stove problem and learned I have a floor insulation problem. Sounds like I'm going to end up with a blaze king stove, an insulated floor. The wife will be over joyed and I'll be a sweaty mess. Once again, thanks guys.
  14. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Loc:
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    You might take a look at the smaller Blaze King like the Scirocco 20. 1200 sq ft of tightly insulated space should not be hard to heat. Be sure to consider an outside air kit for this tight a space.

    Also, be careful when insulating the floor (or even when laying down the carpet.) Cement takes a long time to cure. It will be releasing moisture constantly. You'll want a subflooring that is designed to breath. And wait at least 4 weeks before laying it down. I just went through this for my shop. Insulated flooring made a world of difference.
  15. bag of hammers

    bag of hammers Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Messages:
    1,168
    Loc:
    Northern ON
    Are these box heaters the "infrared" units like they sell at HD or other box stores? If so the heating elements I believe are also pretty spendy when they crap out. +1 on begreen's recommendation on oil filled heaters. We have one in each back bedroom and on the lowest setting they sip the power and keep the space warm on the -25 deg days (we're about 1500 sq ft well insulated). Cost @ $50 ea. and they've been working great for 3 years now - relatively safe and maintenance free. Also +1 on insulating the slab - you won't regret it. One more thought - think about an in floor heat system for your tiled areas. Bathroom for sure. You can DIY this over an insulated slab when the tiles go down and get a nice result. Even a few sq ft in a smaller bathroom is affordable and toasty feet in the wee hours (pardon the pun) will make Mrs Frontier very happy.
  16. wingsfan

    wingsfan Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2008
    Messages:
    358
    Loc:
    Jackson,Mi.
    Personaly I think the Englander will do you fine. But then I feel a stove will only get as warm as you let it. I have an Englander and when the wife just wants to go down and enjoy the stove , she will load it with 3-4 splits at a time and keep a good ambient warmth coming from the stove.But when I load it,I Ioad it to throw some heat. I fill the box and watch the air and I can keep it throwin serious heat for a while. So to me, it is just how warm do you want it, The 30 will heat big areas as well as smaller ones, just takes some discipline.
  17. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Yer running a 30NC in a basement with a floor above it. That is a totally different animal from running it in one common, well-insulated, 1200 sq ft space. There's little comparison. the 30NC is a good stove, but overkill for this application.
  18. Dick Cook

    Dick Cook New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    14
    Loc:
    Cotopaxi, Colorado
    Friend,

    I'm not familiar with that brand of stove, but with 6 seasons under our belts, it's my experience that if you oversize, and the stove smolders due to lack of draft, you will have a lot of soot problems - it's best to have the fire burning hot. We have also found it best to have our boiler outside to keep out the bugs, pollens, dirt and bark that are on the fire wood.

    Hope this is helpful,

    Dick
  19. Trickle

    Trickle New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    47
    Loc:
    East Central Missouri
    +1 on the in floor radiant heating for all tiled areas.
  20. Dick Cook

    Dick Cook New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
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    Loc:
    Cotopaxi, Colorado
    Trickle,

    Beautiful house and stove - keep that gal warm!

    Dick

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