I've got a 5x10 trailer which rides on a single 3500# axle. How small can I go with a lawn tractor that would still be capable of towing it (3500#)?
Tractor for towing
- Thread starter Black Jaque Janaviac
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Badfish740
Minister of Fire
- Oct 3, 2007
- 1,539
Black Jaque Janaviac said:
Are we talking flat ground? Slight grades, etc...? I don't think power is the limiting factor so much as weight. The gearing in the little buggers is pretty stout so 12 HP or so can pull a lot-traction on the other hand is another thing. Over at one of the Deere fanatic sites there are guys who run chevron treads on the rear, fill the tires with windshield washer fluid, and add wheel weights to top it all off. Personally? I'd look for something with at least 10 or 12 HP.
Danno77
Minister of Fire
Depends on the transmission. HP has little to do with it. A JD 210 with a 10HP Kohler will out-tow a modern 20+ HP lawn tractor by far. Most "Garden tractors" have a beefier transmission than a "lawn tractor" would have. 3500lbs is a tall order for any lawn/garden tractor. The problem is stopping. There's a very scary problem with the physics of a 500lb tractor using two wheels (no brakes on the front remember?) to stop a 3500lb load unless the terrain is level, and the traction is excellent.
New, only Deere makes tractors I would want towing this kind of weight. Look at the X700 series. OK there may be other smaller manufacturers out there with something but I can't come up with any that are "garden" tractors.
(Sticker shock disclaimer: these are $10,000 machines)
Used, Deere 300 series, like a 316, 317, 318, 320/322/332 (Big $$ in good shape) or 400 series ie. 420, 425, 445, 455. Big Wheel Horse tractors might do it but I'm not as familiar with them or the older Cub Cadets.
Even with the above machines your going to need serious wheel weights, tire ballast, front suitcase weights to hold it down, etc.
Anything Sears, Husqvarna, MTD and the like have built in the last 30 years isn't going to work.
Most garden tractors are not rated for 3500lbs. Even a JD TH 6x4 Diesel Gator is rated to tow 1400lbs (highest of their UTV's). You could pull the trailer with 'em but I wouldn't go right to the trailers 3500# capacity and certainly not with a single axle trailer. A tandem would help reduce the tongue weight quite a bit.
Bottom line: A lawn tractor just ain't going to do it.
New, only Deere makes tractors I would want towing this kind of weight. Look at the X700 series. OK there may be other smaller manufacturers out there with something but I can't come up with any that are "garden" tractors.
(Sticker shock disclaimer: these are $10,000 machines)
Used, Deere 300 series, like a 316, 317, 318, 320/322/332 (Big $$ in good shape) or 400 series ie. 420, 425, 445, 455. Big Wheel Horse tractors might do it but I'm not as familiar with them or the older Cub Cadets.
Even with the above machines your going to need serious wheel weights, tire ballast, front suitcase weights to hold it down, etc.
Anything Sears, Husqvarna, MTD and the like have built in the last 30 years isn't going to work.
Most garden tractors are not rated for 3500lbs. Even a JD TH 6x4 Diesel Gator is rated to tow 1400lbs (highest of their UTV's). You could pull the trailer with 'em but I wouldn't go right to the trailers 3500# capacity and certainly not with a single axle trailer. A tandem would help reduce the tongue weight quite a bit.
Bottom line: A lawn tractor just ain't going to do it.
I agree with MasterMech. I have a JD 420 and would not think about pulling 3500 lbs with it. I have pulled my 2500lb enclosed trailer in the driveway a few times. Its kind of scary. I would pull 1000 lbs with it, I guess because it also weighs 1000lbs.
How much money are you expecting to pay for a tractor? What else do you expect to do with it?
How much money are you expecting to pay for a tractor? What else do you expect to do with it?
Danno77
Minister of Fire
SolarAndWood
Minister of Fire
You can get a lot of diesel tractor for the price of a lawn tractor that will pull that kind of trailer and still be able to mow your lawn with it.
tamarack
New Member
I have a JD X585 (25hp) "garden tractor" and I pull in 3500# utility trailer around my property filled with split wood. Its OK on mostly level ground, but I'd never try to tow a full 3500# with it. The brakes probably would stop it if you were heading downhill.
tamarack said:
Nice thing is with the X585 and it's 4wd siblings you can put it in 4wd for 4 wheel braking instead of 2.
Ya know for as little as a $1000.00 or less you can buy a nice antique tractor that would pull a 3500# trailer like its not even there. Why piss around with a garden tractor. Allis Chalmer Bs can be had 500-750 dollars and would make fantastic wood haulers.
tamarack
New Member
Yeah - I took a trailer full of wood for a slide down some wet grass this year. The heavy trailer pushed me down the hill like I was on ice. I only stopped after almost jack-knifing, then the slope reduced. The brakes were useless with that load pushing me around. Not fun, but very EXCITING.
Danno77
Minister of Fire
I'm a John Deere fan thru and thru, but I've been looking for a good reason to buy an old 9n. I could live vicariously through the OP, so I'll have to agree with you on this onewkpoor said:
TreePointer
Minister of Fire
A friend filled his 2003 4x4 Chevy Silverado bed with less than a half cord of wood. He had trouble making it up a moderate grade that had a little slick grass on it. So, I wouldn't even use a garden tractor unless it had R1 (or close) tires, a good transmission, good brakes, a lot of weight. Hmm, I think I just described the Allis Chalmers mentioned earlier!
2 years ago I watched my older neighbor in his glory as he was asked to move a piece of farm machinery up and over a greasy and hilly field for his son-in-law that he couldn't pull w/ his brand new 50 horse 4x4 kubota. He used a 35 horse 2 wheel drive tractor to get the job done.
I agree that HP isn't the defining feature. For me it's weight. W/ a heavy tractor and low HP (like the farmall 450 I use for hauling logs) I'll run out of power before the load ever can drag or push me anywhere. I pull up and down some decent hills though. On flat land, this is less of a deal but even a small hill w/ damp grass can make you hurt if that trailer gets the tractor pushing while going down hill, or slides you backwards while going up.
If I say WHOA I want it to happen. You need weight for that. Going is great, but stopping is more important.
pen
I agree that HP isn't the defining feature. For me it's weight. W/ a heavy tractor and low HP (like the farmall 450 I use for hauling logs) I'll run out of power before the load ever can drag or push me anywhere. I pull up and down some decent hills though. On flat land, this is less of a deal but even a small hill w/ damp grass can make you hurt if that trailer gets the tractor pushing while going down hill, or slides you backwards while going up.
If I say WHOA I want it to happen. You need weight for that. Going is great, but stopping is more important.
pen
SolarAndWood
Minister of Fire
ewdudley
Minister of Fire
gzecc said:
Well there's JD 420s and then there are JD 420s. ;-) To be fair IIRC it has four more HP than the later version.
What a pulling 420 may look like:
ewdudley said:gzecc said:
Well there's JD 420s and then there are JD 420s. ;-) To be fair IIRC it has four more HP than the later version.
What a pulling 420 may look like:
When your pistons rival Folgers' cans in diameter, pulling power is a given, lol.
OhioBurner©
Minister of Fire
When your talking about pulling 4-digits pounds lawn tractors are out and garden tractors are the minimum. Some use the terms interchangeably so I dont know if you meant that or not, but usually manufacturers built similar looking models but the 'garden' one were usually built with beefier drivetrain components vs their 'lawn' tractor counterparts.
It will make a HUGE difference how you plan on using it. My $300 cub (with some added items) will pull my 6x10 (3500# axle) with ease around the yard. I'll throw some wood on it and the old 12hp cast iron kohler will tug it along at barely over idle. Introduce the slightest bit of slope and your in a whole different world. My yard does have some slope and I can still pull the same trailer up it but more along the lines of 1/2 to 3/4 throttle minimum. Go into the woods, wouldnt even attempt to pull it, too steep and rough to get traction plus clearance problems. The terrain at the farm is rough enough that a 12.5cu ft poly dump cart is a struggle, but this is mainly a traction limitation. I do have GBC Gator tires, filled with RV antifreeze and wheel weights.
One thing thats been said many times, its not how much you can pull, but how much you can stop. Things can get dangerous fast, especially on hills. One thing that would help is a good hydro transmission. I love gear drives but the brakes normally suck on old tractors. With a hydro you can use the hydro to slow down.
I'd love to have an old small farm tractor like an 8N, or a Farmall 100-300 etc etc, but good ones generally run 2 grand or so, and I dont have a trailer big enough to haul them, so I'd have to get a bigger trailer (another grand or two for used). Tractor would take up more wood space, and the extra weight would probably suck some more fuel too for the 5hr round trip to the farm. I'd still like to get a bigger tractor just to have, for the local old time farm festival & parade, but with my small 2 acres and small gardens a big tractor wouldnt be of much use. My cubs are quite useful and they average around $300 for half way decent ones, at least around here. Many implements still can be found for em. 4WD ATV would be ideal, but again costly.
Another limiting factor with weight... keeping the front end of the tractor on the ground. My 6x10 trailer weighs about 1400# empty. I forget exactly, but somewhere between 2,000-2,500# is the limit with my 3pt with the ball hitch adapter, the front end will start bouncing off the ground. Not good if you want to steer. I plan on making some ballast weight for the front end. A hitch closer to the axle would probably allow more weight, mine puts some leverage on it for sure. This is largely dependent on the design of the trailer too and how its loaded, how much tongue weight it has.
It will make a HUGE difference how you plan on using it. My $300 cub (with some added items) will pull my 6x10 (3500# axle) with ease around the yard. I'll throw some wood on it and the old 12hp cast iron kohler will tug it along at barely over idle. Introduce the slightest bit of slope and your in a whole different world. My yard does have some slope and I can still pull the same trailer up it but more along the lines of 1/2 to 3/4 throttle minimum. Go into the woods, wouldnt even attempt to pull it, too steep and rough to get traction plus clearance problems. The terrain at the farm is rough enough that a 12.5cu ft poly dump cart is a struggle, but this is mainly a traction limitation. I do have GBC Gator tires, filled with RV antifreeze and wheel weights.
One thing thats been said many times, its not how much you can pull, but how much you can stop. Things can get dangerous fast, especially on hills. One thing that would help is a good hydro transmission. I love gear drives but the brakes normally suck on old tractors. With a hydro you can use the hydro to slow down.
I'd love to have an old small farm tractor like an 8N, or a Farmall 100-300 etc etc, but good ones generally run 2 grand or so, and I dont have a trailer big enough to haul them, so I'd have to get a bigger trailer (another grand or two for used). Tractor would take up more wood space, and the extra weight would probably suck some more fuel too for the 5hr round trip to the farm. I'd still like to get a bigger tractor just to have, for the local old time farm festival & parade, but with my small 2 acres and small gardens a big tractor wouldnt be of much use. My cubs are quite useful and they average around $300 for half way decent ones, at least around here. Many implements still can be found for em. 4WD ATV would be ideal, but again costly.
Another limiting factor with weight... keeping the front end of the tractor on the ground. My 6x10 trailer weighs about 1400# empty. I forget exactly, but somewhere between 2,000-2,500# is the limit with my 3pt with the ball hitch adapter, the front end will start bouncing off the ground. Not good if you want to steer. I plan on making some ballast weight for the front end. A hitch closer to the axle would probably allow more weight, mine puts some leverage on it for sure. This is largely dependent on the design of the trailer too and how its loaded, how much tongue weight it has.
Danno77 said:I'm a John Deere fan thru and thru, but I've been looking for a good reason to buy an old 9n. I could live vicariously through the OP, so I'll have to agree with you on this onewkpoor said:
The old fords aint bad (8n,9n) but since I grew up running them I have to vote for
A Ferguson... A to20 is a nice little tractor. Dad still has a to20, to30 , and an f40.
Would love to find a to35 one day to complete the collection.
Or you could get a Steiner... http://www.steinerturf.com/430_max.asp dad has one
and I have run them for prolly 20 years now. definitely bad a$$ for there size, a little pricey though.
kabbott said:Danno77 said:I'm a John Deere fan thru and thru, but I've been looking for a good reason to buy an old 9n. I could live vicariously through the OP, so I'll have to agree with you on this onewkpoor said:
The old fords aint bad (8n,9n) but since I grew up running them I have to vote for
A Ferguson... A to20 is a nice little tractor. Dad still has a to20, to30 , and an f40.
Would love to find a to35 one day to complete the collection.
Or you could get a Steiner... http://www.steinerturf.com/430_max.asp dad has one
and I have run them for prolly 20 years now. definitely bad a$$ for there size, a little pricey though.
My dad has a TO30. It is a great tractor. Enough weight and power to move some big logs for a pretty small package.
Danno77
Minister of Fire
A couple of years ago New Holland had a retro 8n called the "Boomer." It sure was a sweet looking tractor. I still have never seen one in real life. I need to google that to see if there are reviews on it.
Edit: link to one for sale (lots of pictures)
http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?ohid=5620443
Edit: link to one for sale (lots of pictures)
http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?ohid=5620443
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