Transom Question(s)

[Oldman47]

A lot of crawl spaces are vented so they get close to outside air temperature. Even with the vents closed they are an unheated space so they run colder than a cold air return would. There's not much sense in introducing a source of colder air to the house when you are trying to heat it.

 

[begreen]

Correct. The duct could be super insulated by building an insulation box around it. But it would be still be cold at startup.

 

[ambull01]

Keep it simple, take a picture of the sketch with your cell phone. We need to understand the layout you are working with. If you can insulate a duct system with an inline blower that may work out. Or perhaps there is a simpler solution. We'll need to see what you see to determine that.

Okay sir, I have a lot of free time to do the sketch now. What info do you need? Room measurements? Pics of the basement/crawlspace?

 

[begreen]

Just a simple sketch of the floorplan with rough dimensions should be enough.

 

[ambull01]

Okay, hope that will suffice. Looks really sloppy, sorry. That's the main floor. Forgot to label the kitchen, it's the room to the right of the dining room. Basement area is under the kitchen with an outside access double metal doors. Crawl space under the rest of the house. I have to insulate the crawl space this year once it warms up and seal up the vents.

 

[begreen]

No problem, this is great. Yes, that's a long haul for heat to travel from the stove room. All those doors for the main traffic flow from stove room to the kitchen really compound the problem. I can see why the heat is going upstairs. It's the path of least resistance for the heat to convect to. I would not touch the transom areas at all. Enlarging the door opening into the family room would probably help more. But that might not be an option.

Instead I would try running an 6", R8 insulated flex duct from an ~ 8" x 12" floor register in the kitchen to the same sized floor register near the stove. This duct would have an in-line, quiet fan installed in the duct in the basement. The fan would pull air from the kitchen and blow it into the stove room. That will create a convective pattern that will pull the stove room heat toward the kitchen end of the house. Panasonic makes good quiet (WhisperLine) inline fans.

http://www.westsidewholesale.com/panasonic-fv-20nlf1.html

 

[ambull01]

I've been thinking about knocking down the wall between the family room and the dining room. I want the house to be a bit more open.

So you don't think opening up the transom area, installing ceiling ducts from the stove room to the family room, and putting in a cold air return duct work would be the optimal solution?

 

[begreen]

I would do the transom duct as a very last option measure. I'd rather put the stove in the family room and open up part of the wall to the dining room. That would eliminate the worry about the heat going upstairs.

Where do you currently have the fan(s) located?

 

[ambull01]

Yeah I think putting the stove in the family room would solve a lot of issues. Just seems like major work and expensive. I don't have fans yet

 

[begreen]

Just fans on the floor? Yep I have. Blew cold air into the stove room. It only resulted in more heat upstairs. I need to get the heat past the hallway entrance and stairwell. Can't really think of any other way other than cutting out transoms and putting in duct work from stove room to family to and force the heat to go through.

I meant these fans? Where did you try them?

PS: What stove are you burning in? Can you put it in your signature line so that I don't forget it again. .

 

[ambull01]

Oh, I tried them in the kitchen/dining room and family room doorways. All blowing toward the stove room

I think I added the insert. Not sure if I did it right though

 

[Fake coal burner]

I see. What about running duct underneath the kitchen, through basement and crawl space then dumping out in the stove room? I could cut a vent in the kitchen floor and a little fan to blow in cold air, run duct from that vent to other rooms and put in vents in each. So three vent fans pushing cold air to come out in the stove room. The heated air I'll push to the other parts of the house from the ceiling duct. Am I getting carried away or is this feasible?

That will work out ok.That is how I had mine with wood stove and still have it for the gas stove with no blower. I used 2 50 cfm bath fans and aluminum dryer flex duck Tayped the joints with aluminum tape hung from floor joist with double layer duck tape gray stapled . I have 1 fan by the stove (see avatar) the other fan is in the kitchen hall way pipe in unfinished basement run to a T threw the floor by stove. I have mine set up to run both fans or front or rear manual or auto mode. and a vent above door 8x10 inch Make it bigger above the door and isolate. It would heat an old brick house single pan windows all windows ever 5 feet. Its been that way for 25 yearrs so must work ok. I used the cheap fans with 3 inch duck. Not one part has been replaced. I did cut some thin washable filters to fit under the fan grills for dust and dirt. It was cheap to do and 1 day of work.

 

[begreen]

Oh, I tried them in the kitchen/dining room and family room doorways. All blowing toward the stove room

I think I added the insert. Not sure if I did it right though

You did fine, thanks!

 

[ambull01]

I see. What about running duct underneath the kitchen, through basement and crawl space then dumping out in the stove room? I could cut a vent in the kitchen floor and a little fan to blow in cold air, run duct from that vent to other rooms and put in vents in each. So three vent fans pushing cold air to come out in the stove room. The heated air I'll push to the other parts of the house from the ceiling duct. Am I getting carried away or is this feasible?

That will work out ok.That is how I had mine with wood stove and still have it for the gas stove with no blower. I used 2 50 cfm bath fans and aluminum dryer flex duck Tayped the joints with aluminum tape hung from floor joist with double layer duck tape gray stapled . I have 1 fan by the stove (see avatar) the other fan is in the kitchen hall way pipe in unfinished basement run to a T threw the floor by stove. I have mine set up to run both fans or front or rear manual or auto mode. and a vent above door 8x10 inch Make it bigger above the door and isolate. It would heat an old brick house single pan windows all windows ever 5 feet. Its been that way for 25 yearrs so must work ok. I used the cheap fans with 3 inch duck. Not one part has been replaced. I did cut some thin washable filters to fit under the fan grills for dust and dirt. It was cheap to do and 1 day of work.

The vent above door, are you talking about the transom? I read about how forcing cold air out of the rooom will cause the heated air to enter but still not entirely sure how that happens lol. Sounds good, I have a lot of large windows too. Probably no insulation in walls. Looks like original windows for this 1891 built house.

 

[begreen]

Take it one step at a time, do the return fan properly first. Then test. No need to swiss cheese the house if not necessary. How hot does the stove room get?

 

[ambull01]

Take it one step at a time, do the return fan properly first. Then test. No need to swiss cheese the house if not necessary. How hot does the stove room get?

True. I may not pick up the IS until the cold season is over though. Probably not possible to test effectiveness in hot weather right?

The stove room doesn't get hot. It's actually still cold. Probably never gets above 60 degrees no matter what I try. I'm not sure if my wood is just super wet, the insert is just too tiny to keep up with the heat loss/cold air flowing into room, the absence of a proper flue is causing all the heat to go right up the chimney, or something else. This has been a pretty miserable winter for the most part. I just have to keep busy and warm myself through my body temp lol.

 

[begreen]

OK, sounds like we need to eliminate variables first. Otherwise there's going to be a lot of tail chasing, going nowhere. The fan test is going to depend on excess heat in the stove room first. You need to test with some known dry fuel and get the stove room up to a warm temp. Do you have a thermometer on the Century? Is there a block-off plate in the damper area of the chimney above the insert?

If the wood is wet then you are trying not going to get good heat. Have you tested the wood for moisture content? If yes and it is testing high, get some kiln dried store bought wood bundles or some BioBricks, or ECO Bricks if possible. Mix them with the current wood. Or if you can get some dry construction lumber cutoffs (2 x 4s & 2 x 6s) to mix in, that would work too.

 

[ambull01]

No thermometer. Yes, there's a block-off plate. Haven't really felt the need for a thermometer since this stupid insert never really gets that hot. Went to my wife's grandparents house and their free standing secondary stove was kicking out massive heat. Made me jealous and pissed off at the same time. In-laws have a tcat stove and it heats their whole wood cabin-ish house complete. It almost gets too warm in their house so I usually have to go outside.

I'll buy a moisture reader this weekend and test. I'm using red oak right now. It was from a dead standing but it's probably over 20% mc. I'll see if I can scrounge up some pallets and use that to see if this insert can throw off some heat.