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  1. Tendencies

    Tendencies Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2006
    Messages:
    103
    Loc:
    NW Wisc
    Well it had to happen, almost the end of the heating season here and my Dutchwest DW2500-X takes a dump... Seems the fire box which is welded at the corners to another box wrapped around it for the warm air to be forced into the room let loose! 3 welds completely let go on the left side looking at it and now it's dropped about an inch on that side to the floor. I'm a welder with over 30 years experience including 20 in the Navy and I have seen some pretty crappy welds in my time and these are right near the top! No penetration what so ever!! I called the local rep, they in turn called VC (maybe a VC rep) and their response was "are you starting your fires with gasoline?" I about had a fit! (I'm also on the local VFD) I know how to start a fire (With Super fire starters!!) Any ways, have not heard anything in over a week so I sent the rep an e-mail last night and, her response from VC/rep was

    "Bill,
    I got this e-mail today. Read below & let me know your thoughts.
    Do you think this could work?
    Thank-you -
    xxxx
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: xxxx xxx
    To: xxxx xxxx
    Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 9:43 AM
    Subject: RE: DUTCHWEST INSERT


    xxxx xxxxxxxx said he would pay for a qualified welder to tack weld that side back together. Send us the invoice with a warranty claim form and we’ll credit you back. I was under the impression the customer was currently a welder. That not being the case, is there someone in your area you or Chris knows?

    Thank you,

    xxxx xxx"

    I sent an e-mail back saying absolutely not! I mean, this things not even 6 months old and I'm supposed to fix it? Or let somebody come into my home and weld it up? Is this typical? If the welds are crap on the left side I know they are the same on the right and it's just a matter of time..... Any ideas??? Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    T

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  2. Corie

    Corie Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
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    2,430
    Loc:
    Halifax, VA
    Don't like the sound of that one bit. Seems that's you should be given a new stove in this situation.
  3. Gunner

    Gunner New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2006
    Messages:
    851
    Loc:
    Southern Ontario
    I, like you would not be happy with that offer.

    Do you have any pictures? The firebox itself is still in OK? but the box around it has the bad welds? Trying to picture it.


    Good luck
  4. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2005
    Messages:
    12,099
    Loc:
    Western Mass.
    New stove!
    Or better yet, credit toward another model - maybe go for a cast one this time.

    This is virtually unheard of, a structural weld failure in the first year of a major brand stove!
    Let them fix it and sell it at as a refurb....you need a good stove.
  5. Tendencies

    Tendencies Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2006
    Messages:
    103
    Loc:
    NW Wisc
  6. Tendencies

    Tendencies Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2006
    Messages:
    103
    Loc:
    NW Wisc
  7. Gunner

    Gunner New Member

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    Loc:
    Southern Ontario
    Dealer installed or DIY?
  8. Tendencies

    Tendencies Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2006
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    103
    Loc:
    NW Wisc
    Dealer
  9. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
    29,048
    Loc:
    Northern Virginia
    Looking at the first three pics it makes it look like the firebox was suspended inside the shroud by the welds. Meaning the welds were holding all of the weight and that the heaviest part of the stove wasn't supported from the bottom.

    Hope that ain't true. But it sure looks like it.
  10. Tendencies

    Tendencies Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2006
    Messages:
    103
    Loc:
    NW Wisc
    You are correct, it is suspended, taking the blower off reveals that.



    T
  11. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
    49,596
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Unbelievable. I don't think I'd want an identical replacement unless you intend to support the box underneath.
  12. Metal

    Metal Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
    681
    You should get a new stove, but their warranty does state that it is their choice:

    CFM Corporation will repair or replace, at its option, any part
    found to be defective upon inspection by a Dutchwest, Authorized
    Dealer. The customer must return the defective part or the stove, with
    shipping prepaid, to the Authorized Dealer or pay for any Authorized
    Dealer in-home travel fees or service charges for in-home repair work.
    It is the dealer’s option whether the repair work will be done in the customer’s
    home or in the dealer’s shop. If, upon inspection, the damage
    is found to be the fault of the manufacturer, repairs will be authorized at
    no charge to the customer for parts and/or labor.
  13. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

    Request a new stove. Let then take yours and reburbish it and let them sell it. I agree about the welds, done right ,this should have never happened. Remind your dealerthat over a 1000
    people have viewed the pictures of the poor welds and the longer they wait to get it swapped, the more their image gets tarnished. PM me If you are having troubles maybe I can help
  14. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

    Joined:
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    29,048
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    Northern Virginia
    Judge: "Sir, what brings you and that big black steel box into my courtroom today?"

    Tendencies: "Well Your Honor, it's like this. VC sold me this thing and it fell apart in my house with a 1,200 degree fire burning it. Now they want to tack weld it back together, with a welding machine in my family room, and then they want me to trust if to not fall apart again. And burn my house down. Originally they thought I would just tack it back together myself".

    Judge: "What?!!! Baliff, bring that email to me please."
  15. Corey

    Corey Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2005
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    2,152
    Loc:
    Midwest
    Wow - that is incredible. Something doesn't seem right, though...are you saying those tiny tack welds support the entire weight of the firebox? Doesn't seem right at all. I'm thinking either they missed some major welding that is supposed to give the actual structural support or the parts were misaligned and that outer frame was lower than it should be. Either way, I would hold out for better service because I think even if those tiny welds were perfect, they would have a hard time supporting the entire weight of the firebox.

    Good luck and best wishes for a speedy resolution.

    Corey

    PS - is there another crack shown in the #26 image? It's right at the very bottom of the frame, slightly right of center, right where the 'ash shelf' on the stove makes the bend back toward the firebox?
  16. Tendencies

    Tendencies Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2006
    Messages:
    103
    Loc:
    NW Wisc
    No, no other cracks yet...... I re-read my warranty and emailed em back stating I want somebody to come to my house and visually inspect this thing, emailed pic's is pure BS, either stand by the product or I may have to either contact the company directly or try and get some money back thru Mastercard if it's not too late.....Anybody have any pull with VC?

    T
  17. restorer

    restorer New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2006
    Messages:
    831
    Loc:
    Salt Lake City, Utah
    I agree with Elk. Where there is one bad weld there may be more, where there are many there are too many.

    Approach the dealer with the idea it is not their fault, but you no longer feel safe with the stove and you want a new one, or a manufacturer's full credit for your purchase price for an upgrade. Ask his help to convince VC to do the right thing. A home hack job is not the way to go.

    May want to use the analogy, if half the frame on your six month old Cadillac Escalade fell off, would Caddie send you to the local welder to tack it back up, and continue the full warranty? VC's response was not well thought out and probably not approved up the line. Be nice until they don't budge and then say, "Next Stop The Consumer Product Safety Commission. Have a nice day."
  18. MountainStoveGuy

    MountainStoveGuy Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2006
    Messages:
    3,654
    Loc:
    Boulder County
    This lack of responce is what ruined me the first time. This thread is discouraging to say the least. Im considering picking up CFM again, and this does not give me a vote of confindece.
    Not that is helps you in the least, but if i were the dealer i would be there in a split second and have that stove loaded in my truck and in the trash can. No way would i risk the liabilty of having somethng like that fail again and burn down your house, manufacture rembursment or not. I have never seen a stove fall apart. Its somthing i would expect from vogalzang.
  19. stoveguy2esw

    stoveguy2esw Minister of Fire

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    5,990
    Loc:
    madison hgts. va
    if it were one of my units, i would have given the owner an option to have it fixed ,but if the owner wasnt comfortable with that i'd have replaced it simple but effective. not knocking overall brand quality im sure its a fluke, but they should have given the options i stated IMHO
  20. restorer

    restorer New Member

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    Messages:
    831
    Loc:
    Salt Lake City, Utah
    Where are the welders out there? That weld looks like a junior high solder job. How did that get through QC? I think, if it were me, I'd send some good detailed pictures to R&D and ask them what they think. Seems you are stuck in the Betty Crocker be nice PR hell, "We're not admitting anything. If you fix it yourself, we won't mind."

    I have a 10 year old Wells-Cargo Trailer. Had some latching problems with the ramp. Went to the dealer, called the factory, asked me if I would mind driving t 30 miles to the plant so they could take a look. Two coffee and two don nuts later, the latching system was replaced, with a new door gasket. Cost to me, a caffeine and sugar rush.

    This could bite them in the tush.
  21. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

    I told Tendency I would do what I can to help get his stove replaced
  22. MountainStoveGuy

    MountainStoveGuy Minister of Fire

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    3,654
    Loc:
    Boulder County
    Elk, you the man.
    Its a shame that it takes a third party to get them riled up, but you have a nack for it ;)
  23. stoveguy2esw

    stoveguy2esw Minister of Fire

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    madison hgts. va
    actually in all fairness , i would have asked for pictures if convienient,(not a requirement) if for no other reason to speed the process.(deciding if it were somthing worth exploring giving the owner the local welder option if the situation warranted and the owner didnt want to go through the replacement effort as its more time consuming) it would not be to look for a way out and my decision would not likely been swayed by them ( i already posted that) , but a picture would definately be helpful to me. were it one of my stoves in my case especially as we are mostly big box based and dont always have a dealerto hop in the car and look. not to mention the quick print and walk out to QC with a bone in my teeth!
  24. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    12,099
    Loc:
    Western Mass.
    I really can't comment on the engineering of this thing, but holding up a firebox, brick, wood and the heavy steel with a lighter weight shroud does not seem to pass the Acid test. Anyone else seen one of these who can confirm this construction detail.

    Just imagine the stresses in even shipping these things....bounce up and down with tremendous strain on the welds. I think CFM should hire young Corie so they get some new blood in there!

    Elk, must be those Canadians drinking beer again, Eh?
  25. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

    Lets see here What VC response will be. They do have a chance to redeam themselves. They did solve the Encore everburn issue their top tech came out and figured the issue out.

    I agree with Goose ont that issue we both feel the ash door hinge got tweaked in transit by folk lift or in handlling or possibly during uncrating .finally a good chance it happened during installation. Not to hard to do if you lift a 450 lb stove with a two wheeler using the ash compartment with out blocking it a first or removing it
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