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true cord for x-mas battle..

Post in 'The Wood Shed' started by argus66, Dec 23, 2008.

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  1. argus66

    argus66 Feeling the Heat

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    some of u may remember the trouble i had buying a true cord a few weeks ago from a local wood dealer. a short recap i went to buy a true cord based on a sign the seller has on the side of the road stating cord of firewood $120 when i went to buy wood turned out to be a half a cord for that price because wood was split 3 times for stove size???? the guy flipped out on me and screamed this at me and told me that is a cord for stove wood. i have bought a true cord at this dealer 2 times last yr, anyway some folks on here told me this was fair and that i was a fool and a idiot and even threatened me with violence and that dept. of weights and measures would ''laugh in may face' and that the better business beau would not even care. also a few people on hear also stated that a cord is a vague measurement. well the state of nj does not think so and the dwm did definitely not laugh in may face and were very interested in what i had to say. they did 2 secret shoppers at the business with the second one ending with the owner being arrested after arguing and getting violent with a state worker.[the guy is a bit of a hot head} he has lost his status with the better business beau, and will be fined $4000. and could face jail time for losing his cool. i guess with all states in the red and needing every penny with the bad economy they will collect. think twice next time u sell a cord of wood.

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  2. lugoismad

    lugoismad New Member

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    Thats cool and all man...

    but next time, would you mind proof reading and maybe breaking what you have to say up into some paragraphs?
  3. 67ref

    67ref New Member

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    sniff sniff sniff ... what's that I smell ?
  4. Adios Pantalones

    Adios Pantalones Minister of Fire

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    If people said that a cord is a vague measure then they are wrong.
    A cord is 128 cu ft stacked wood.
    A FACE cord is a vague measure.
  5. gzecc

    gzecc Minister of Fire

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    Good job. A stove cord, thats a new one on me! That must be like a bakers dozen. What town was he in?
  6. NitroDave

    NitroDave Member

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    me thinks someone is [​IMG]
  7. kenny chaos

    kenny chaos Minister of Fire

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    The guys sounds like a dummy and gets mad to cover it up. I think I would've just moved on.

    Brings back the memory of a super hot headed construction superintendent I knew. He hated anyone parking in "his spot" next to the job trailer (he often rode in with a co-worker). So doesn't this pick-up pull in one day and the super goes off his tree and calls him every name in the book. The man calmly moved his truck over a spot, put on his hardhat with the initials OSHA on it, and proceeded to write up $50,000 worth of fines. That didn't change the super. Maybe the struggling dummy will learn after being arrested and fined $4000? Or maybe it'll be what finally pushes him over the edge. Who knows?
  8. argus66

    argus66 Feeling the Heat

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    he is in ocean township, on hope rd. the guy is pretty dumb and look where it got him.
  9. kenny chaos

    kenny chaos Minister of Fire

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    Moderator call?
  10. bsruther

    bsruther Minister of Fire

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    It seems to me that it was just just a guy selling over priced wood. I don't see the justifiction in getting the law involved and causing him a lot of expensive troubles. What did he do to you? If someone buys his wood without knowing what they are getting, it's their problem. Did it make you feel good to know that you caused him so much trouble?
  11. mikeyny

    mikeyny Feeling the Heat

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    Well, this has been discussed here many ,many, many times. No matter how you stack it a cord is never a cord twice. Stack it loose or tight you get a different amount every time. a Cord of wood is log length 4ft long stacked 4 ft high and 8 ft long. 128 cubic ft. When it is split it is a much smaller amount of cubic ft. It is what it is. Know what you are buying. I rarely have to buy wood but when I do I see what the seller has to offer and take it or leave it. If the amount I am going to buy appears to be seasoned and come close to the amount he claims it is ,I buy it. Buyer beware. If anyone cares to dispute what a full cord of wood really is, have at it !
  12. argus66

    argus66 Feeling the Heat

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    a rip of is a rip off,,well if u sell a gallon of milk it should be a gallon not a pint. and the problem lies that wood was sold last yr as a true cord 4 ft x 8 ft 128 cubic ft and this yr half of that for same amount. does i make u feel good to rip people off and not give them what they are paying for. as i said before all i wanted was to get was i was paying for!!!! if a half of cord is $120 than so be it and change the sign. also as it turned out i wasn't the only complaint there were 5 others.
  13. kenny chaos

    kenny chaos Minister of Fire

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    $120 for a half cord in NJ sounds pretty fair and if those were stove size splits better yet mine are too big and someone on here even called them yule logs that pissed me off You should measure a gallon of milk sometime, please. Speaking of milk, I need my egg nog. A double for you?
  14. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa Minister of Fire

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    Some people claim the opposite, but I read somewhere here that cut, split, and stacked, 120 cu ft is a cord while in the round, it's 128. I can live with that much discrepancy.

    I got my order in for 12 cord today with my wood guy. Price went up $5 to $100 per cord. The cord size better not get smaller.
  15. Outdoorsman

    Outdoorsman New Member

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    So next time you go by this guys place you won't be surprised when the price is $150.00 for 1/2 cord.

    After all he'll be look'n to cover the cost of the fines.
  16. atvdave

    atvdave Member

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    Great!!!!!!!! :lol:

    Around here many people also try to sale wood as a cord and it turns out only to be a 1/2 or less. A cord of wood is a cord of wood... 4'x4'x8'.. anything less is false advertisement and should be reported to the law. Approx... 2 full size pick-up truck loads.

    Regardless what others say.. I say thank you, and more of us should do the same.. We don't need rip-offs like this person.
  17. NWfuel

    NWfuel Minister of Fire

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    OK I'll bite. If I purchase a cord of 16" cut rounds, that is a stack 4' high and 24' long this will be 128 cu ft. When I split this I will restack and my calculations will give 135 cu ft. Now, I have seen this happen at least 3500 times in my career as a wood dealer. So I guess we are missing some wood here. You claim 8' logs so they need to be cut to length. It is the sawdust. I don't want to pay for Probably 12-15 cu ft. Makes sense to me. I aways prefer to buy my wood cut to length but not split.

    Happy Holidays to all
    Thomas
  18. oconnor

    oconnor Minister of Fire

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    Quote from Canadian Weights and Measures regulations - A cord is a legal unit of measurement defined by the Weights and Measures Regulations as “128 cubic feet of stacked roundwood (whole or split, with or without bark) containing wood and airspace with all bolts of similar length piled in a regular manner with their longitudinal axes approximately parallel.”

    Terms that are not recognized (illegal) for the sale of firewood in Canada include: apartment cord, furnace cord, rack of wood, short cord, bush cord, pile of wood, tossed cord, single cord, face cord, processed cord, truckload of wood, stove cord.

    From the pamphlet "Buying Firewood - Don't get Burned" found here - http://dsp-psd.pwgsc.gc.ca/Collection/Iu72-4-4-4-2006E.pdf

    As for the amount of airspace in the 128 Cu Ft increasing or decreasing when the wood is split into smaller pieces - it is way too late for me to figure out the math on that one - one way or the other.
  19. thebeatlesrgood

    thebeatlesrgood New Member

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    it's not just a matter of a guy selling overpriced wood. hell, if he wants to sell a true cord for $5000/cord then thats fine and perfectly legal, however if you are advertising a full cord and give someone a half or less regardless of the price, thats when youre breaking laws as defined by the weights and measures regulations. i mean if youre off by + - 5-10% that is most likely an honest mistake and can be a result of restacking discrepancies. but 50% less than the advertised volume is deliberately deceptive. and in this case i dont thinks the op was out of line trying to make an honest man out of that jerk.
  20. JoeyD

    JoeyD Minister of Fire

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    For those here concerned about all the trouble and added expense the dealer has to put up with, did you ever think about the honest dealer up the road who could be you? His sign says $180 a cord but it is a true full cord. The people that don't know the difference and are willing to accept the $120 partial cord out of ignorance are killing the honest guy.
  21. DWW68

    DWW68 New Member

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    they did 2 secret shoppers at the business with the second one ending with the owner being arrested after arguing and getting violent with a state worker.[the guy is a bit of a hot head}

    I believe this is what caused him so much trouble.
  22. SaratogaJJ

    SaratogaJJ New Member

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    Yeah, can't a guy make a dishonest living anymore, without the government getting all involved?

    There is a place selling near me, that sells by something called the "fireplace cord." This is, essentially, 1/2 of a face cord. I suspect that is because, as you will see below, when you sell something called a "face cord," in New York State, you are legally required to express the dimensions.


    This is what the State of New York has to say about it. This is from New York Consolidated Rules and Regulations, cited as 1 NYCRR 221.13, subsection 13


    (13) Wood for fuel. (i) All wood for fuel shall be offered for sale or sold at retail in the manner provided in this paragraph, except:

    (a) any sale of unpackaged wood for fuel if the wood was observed by the buyer or his agent before sale; and

    (b) any sale of standing trees offered as stumpage for fuel purposes.

    (ii) Definitions. (a) Wood for fuel means any kindling, logs, boards, timbers or other wood, split or not split, and similar products advertised, offered for sale or sold in a form or size appropriate for use as fuel.

    (b) Cord means the amount of wood which is contained in a space of 128 cubic feet, when the wood is ranked and well stowed. The dimensions for a standard cord of wood are four feet in height, eight feet in width and four feet in depth and shall be stated whenever the term is used.

    (c) Face cord means the front or face of a standard cord, i.e., four feet in height and eight feet in width, and the depth being defined by the length of the cut wood expressed in inches. The dimensions shall be stated whenever the term face cord is used in any representation.

    (d) Ranked and well stowed means the placing of pieces of wood in a row, with individual pieces touching and parallel to each other, and stacked in a compact manner.

    (e) Representation means any advertisements, offering, invoice or the like that pertains to the sale of wood for fuel.

    (iii) Identity. (a) No representation of wood for fuel shall identify as "hardwood" the wood from any species of conifer, aspen, poplar, basswood, butternut, willow, grey birch and paper birch.

    (b) If wood is represented as seasoned, the length of time and the manner of seasoning must be specified.

    (iv) Quantity. (a) Whenever wood for fuel is advertised, offered for sale, or sold at retail, the three dimensions of the wood, when ranked and well stowed, shall be stated and shall be expressed in feet and inches. The dimensions may be accompanied by any descriptive word, such as cord, face cord, truckload, rack, etc. For example:

    (1) 4 ft x 8 ft x 24 in (1/2 cord);

    (2) 4 ft x 8 ft x 16 in (face cord);

    (3) 4 ft x 8 ft x 18 in (rack);

    (4) 9 ft x 9 ft x 3 ft (truckload);

    (5) 1/3 cord (4 ft x 8 ft x 16 in); and

    (6) face cord (4 ft x 8 ft x 18 in).

    (b) Wood may be sold by weight if the quantity exceeds two cords.

    (c) Processed wood, such as wood chips, hogged bark, slabs and edgings, pelletized wood and shavings, shall be sold by weight or volume.

    (d) Whole logs may be sold by weight, by log scale according to any recognized log rule which is specified, by length and diameter of the logs, or by the volume of the truck bed, plus count.

    (e) Packaged wood for fuel containing less than four cubic fee shall be sold by volume.

    (f) A single artificial compressed fireplace log shall be sold by weight, and packages of such individual logs containing less than four cubic fee (1/32 of a cord) may be sold by net weight, plus count.

    (v) Delivery ticket, sales invoice or receipt. A delivery ticket, sales invoice or receipt shall be presented by the seller to the buyer whenever any unpackaged wood for fuel is sold. The delivery ticket, sales invoice or receipt shall contain the following information:

    (a) the name and address of the seller;

    (b) the date of the sale;

    (c) the quantity or dimensions of the wood sold; and

    (d) the price of the quantity sold.
  23. deck2

    deck2 Burning Hunk

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    Technically could a face cord could be a full cord if the splits were 4 ft. long and the face of the stack was 4ft high and eight feet long?
  24. SaratogaJJ

    SaratogaJJ New Member

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    That's a good question. The definition of a "cord" in New York State requires that the wood be "ranked and well stowed," the definition of which can be found in my previous post.

    I suppose you could sell a "face cord" as you hypothesize, as long as the seller made the dimensions of the face cord explicit. However, I'm fairly confident that you couldn't sell such a face cord as 'seasoned,' because I'm not sure how you could possibly sell 4-foot long splits. I can imagine selling a cord that was comprised of 4-foot long rounds, but not 4-foot long splits.

    However, I'm not an attorney, and I don't work for the NYS Department of Agriculture and Markets, so my interpretation should not be construed as anything other than the mere conjecture of a layperson.

    And, as an aside, if someone is going to sell me a "face cord" that was 4' high and 8' feet long, but in which each individual piece was also 4-feet deep, then damn sure I'd want a pretty steep discount, 'cause it certainly ain't split, and it also [probably] ain't seasoned worth a damn.
  25. deck2

    deck2 Burning Hunk

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    Well, It could be split and it could be seasoned, Have you ever seen split wood fence posts, But that would be one hell of a stove that could consume a 4 ft. long piece of wood! I was just making a point that a face cord is just one face of a stack of wood what is behind that face could be any length.
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