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UL listings not being honored by my insurance

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by diyrye, Sep 28, 2012.

  1. blades

    blades Minister of Fire

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    First bail on that ins co. Second might not be them proper but their underwriter, been running into problems in that respect quite a bit lately. Snot nosed newbies that do not know squat, fresh out of school. Third do not waste your breath, time and resources trying to re- educate a closed mind system. It will just frustrate the h... out of you.

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  2. diyrye

    diyrye New Member

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    Well i ordered my vogelzang ponderosa today off northlineexpress, was cheaper than northern tools, had free shipping, and free humidifier/steamer for stove. I also ordered a double wall smooth lined, insulated, stainless liner kit from Rockford chimney supply. Some stove pipe yet, and probably a little swearing and hopefully I'll be ready to break it in. Just gotta pull some carpet off the concrete in front of hearth to get my 18" clearance but i want to tile there eventually anyways. Thanks for all the help!
    ScotO and Huntindog1 like this.
  3. FyreBug

    FyreBug Minister of Fire

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    We are a MFG and we do not put a UL logo on the label. If we were to put a lable for every certifying agencies and their standards a stove would look like a race car with all the stickers on it. That is why an indepedent lab such as Omni, Intertek or Warnock Hersey will certify a stove to all of the above standards.

    If your insurance agent wants to know specifically which standards... Open up your manual and fax them the page that list them all. If they are really anal about it, the MFG can send certification paper to them.
    ScotO likes this.
  4. tfdchief

    tfdchief Minister of Fire

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    Even my old buck was UL listed.;)
  5. Huntindog1

    Huntindog1 Minister of Fire

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    Congrats on the purchase I noticed that the Vogelzang Ponderosa has 6 burn tubes and has a 87 percent efficiency rating which is good for this type stove and not being a cat stove. My Vogelzang Performer is only 76 percent efficient.

    Its also interesting as I was looking at the manual at Northline Express website and this stove has a primary air control lever plus a high burn control lever which my Performer does not.
  6. fossil

    fossil Accidental Moderator Staff Member

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    Right, I got it. Stood corrected above in the thread. My mistake. No "UL" logo, but something that identifies the lab which conducted the testing in the name of (under contract to) UL. In the case of solid fuel burning appliances, this is quite often Warnock Hersey, so the lab's logo is typically found on the label, along with the verbiage that the testing was done to UL standards.
    ScotO likes this.
  7. Joful

    Joful Minister of Fire

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    Well, by that logic... unless you burn your house down, you don't need insurance.

    Again... what happens in the event of a house fire? Won't said insurance company attempt to deny the claim based on the fact that you installed this heating appliance without informing them, and adjusting your rate accordingly?
  8. stoveguy2esw

    stoveguy2esw Minister of Fire

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    in the upper left corner of the tag is the logo for Omni the "OTL" logo, just below it is the report number. so that unit was certified by a UL accredited testing agency to the UL standard required for the listing. so yeah, its UL certified.
  9. diyrye

    diyrye New Member

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    I and everyone here I'm sure want to avoid any fires outside the stove. With my luck, I'm just trying to cover my bases. That's why I'm going with the somewhat overkill double wall, smooth inside, insulated liner. And I am going to pickup a set of chimney brushes. I got some stage 3 creosote remover also to try to cleanup my smoke chamber before the install. I used to work with a guy who just had a stainless liner put in recently and he said "i don't know If my firewood vendor hasn't been seasoning the wood well or what but I've had two chimney fires this past year but just left them burn out because the stainless liner won't be damaged".... Wow..
  10. firefighterjake

    firefighterjake Minister of Fire

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    I can only speak to my parent's experience where they installed an OWB after their policy was in place and their house burned down. The insurance company screwed around for quite some time and in the end covered them . . . but denied the full house replacement coverage that they had since they had added the OWB and did not inform them.
  11. Huntindog1

    Huntindog1 Minister of Fire

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    DYIRye,

    My best advice is just dont burn your house down. :)

    Ok slap me.
  12. Scott2373

    Scott2373 Member

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    My wife has worked for Allstate for almost 20 years now. When we added the stove there was no inspection, they just added a rider for about $20 per year. I have to add that there is NO DISCOUNT FOR EMPLOYEES, as well, because a lot of people ask what kind of discounts we receive because she works for the company. It sounds like your agent or rep has ZERO idea what they are talking about. As far as the insurance company goes, well it's sort of like Geico - sure the rates are cheap, but just wait when you have a claim. Good luck getting compensated. You'll have to fight tooth and nail to get them to acknowledge that it falls within their coverage. Then if they do in fact pay out, watch how much your rates increase. Do yourself a favor and find another insurance company because it's just nor worth the hassle in the long run. I recognize the name, and IIRC, my wife has had dealings with them and not positive ones. Good luck!
  13. Sprinter

    Sprinter Minister of Fire

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    Was your parent's fire in any way caused by the OWB? I would think that the company would have to show that the appliance was in some way involved with the cause to deny a claim just based on having one.

    For any insurance or legal professionals out there: Would a homeowner's policy have to specifically state a requirement to inform the company of the installation of a wood stove for the company to base a denial on failure to inform? I'm going to read my policy to see if there is such a provision.
  14. Joful

    Joful Minister of Fire

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    What did you find?
  15. Sprinter

    Sprinter Minister of Fire

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    Oh, oh. Got busy. I'll try to dig it up today.
  16. Eater309

    Eater309 Member

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    Here's my two cents worth and my insurance companies also. I was told more house fires are caused by Christmas lights than by wood stoves so there wasn't any increase in rates or special conditions set. Nice. Hope I don't have to insure for Christmas lights now...... lol
  17. Sprinter

    Sprinter Minister of Fire

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    When I was a firefighter in Eastern Wa, we had chimney fires, but no extension fires as a result. No damage, although that was just my experience and obviously bad ones do happen! The lights issue is interesting. I've seen studies that show that lights themselves don't get hot enough to ignite even dry trees, but overloading the electrical circuits and improper use of cords for the lights cause lots of fires. Maybe the other firefighters here have stories, or maybe another thread is in order.
  18. Huntindog1

    Huntindog1 Minister of Fire

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    Its my understanding that those battery chargers for laptops and other such things are really bad, usually plugged in an outlet and never unplugged , they dont go off they stay warm to hot to touch all the time till something shorts out. They are usually plugged into a wall out let just underneath the curtains.
  19. Joful

    Joful Minister of Fire

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    I agree with Sprinter... likely a good topic for the Inglenook. That said, when my father used to do fire inspection, I remember toasters and toaster ovens being the root cause of many (most?) of the fires he was hired to investigate.
  20. firefighterjake

    firefighterjake Minister of Fire

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    Actually yes . . . they pin pointed the cause to either being a fault with the electrical system that he wired himself (Mistake 1 -- possibly) or a hot ember that rolled out (Mistake 1 -- possibly) and went up against the wooden structure he built around the OWB (Mistake 2 -- namely being a wooden structure with the wood going right to the flush slab) and when the fire started the structure was just a few feet from the house (Mistake 3.)

    They have since rebuilt . . . and he now has a pellet boiler . . . enclosed in a wooden structure . . . just a few feet from the house. D'oh!
  21. Sprinter

    Sprinter Minister of Fire

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    How unfortunate. Thanks for sharing that. Maybe it will help someone else.
  22. Sprinter

    Sprinter Minister of Fire

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    They do get pretty warm. The trick is to make sure they don't get covered up by a carpet or something so they can't dissipate heat. Same with extension cords. Never put an extension cord under anything. Plenty of insurance claims for that kind of thing.

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