Update on question about flue size and draft for new install

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NH_Wood

Minister of Fire
Dec 24, 2009
2,602
southern NH
Hello everyone. Have some new information about my planned install of a Hearthstone Mansfield. Had a chimney sweep come out yesterday to inspect my chimney and give his thoughts on the install. Here is the original post:

I am switching from a pellet stove to wood burning stove for next burn season (winter 2010/2011). Home is ~ 3000 sqft. Open concept 2000 sqft lower level and the rest of space upstairs (3 rooms). Large central chimney containing two flues - one for oil and one for fire place. Pellet stove is tapped into fireplace chimney flue on opposite side of fireplace. The tap occurs at the smoke shelf of the chimney, approximately 12-18” below the first tile. Fireplace flue is lined with 12” square tiles. My plan is to install a Hearthstone Mansfield woodstove, using the existing tap of the pellet stove. I have a few concern since the 12” flue tiles are larger than the ‘guideline’ of 3X the cross-section area of the 6” stove pipe. First - do you think I will have adequate draft? Again, I have about 20’ of interior chimney, ~ 8’ in the attic, and ~ 4’ exiting the roof near the peak. So, I assumed that I would have good draft, even with large tiles, since the temperature difference between chimney air and outside air is likley quite high. Second - since the flue gases will cool within the larger flue space at a greater rate than within a 6 or 8” flue, should I expect high amounts of creosote near the top of the chimney? I am two years ahead on wood now, and will stay 2 years ahead, so I’ll be burning very well seasoned wood. Lastly - is there a problem having a woodstove tapped into the chimney below the first tile?

So.....although most replies from this first post suggested installing a liner through the ceiling, 2nd floor, and roof (i.e. not using the large chimney), the sweep thought the chimney would work just fine. He tested the draft and it was strong, plus he indicated that since only ~ 3 feet of chimney was above roof line, gases would stay nice and warm for the majority of the tile flue, and therefore, I should not see excessive creosote forming. He's been a sweep for ~ 20 years, and he indicated that a number of folks he services have the same set up (woodstove exhausting into 12' flue) and that they are doing fine. So, I'm leaning toward giving the easier install (directly into the chimney) a shot, and see if I can avoid the added expense of the liner and interior/exterior work. Figured I could give it a shot next year, during late fall, and if the draft proves to be too sluggish, be prepared to do a quick liner install. What do you all think? Cheers!
 
Have you checked with your local codes and your homeowners insurance as to installing your stove in non-compliance of the manufacturers guidelines? Normally, non-compliance of guidelines equates failure of a code inspection and no insurance coverage in case of a fire.

Shari
 
Shari,

Good call - will check into insurance issue. Cheers!
 
I just checked the specs in the manual. They advise no bigger than 8"x8".

Did the sweep actually measure the draft or just SWAG it? They specify "a draft between 0.06" wc and 0.1" wc.".

As for chimney height, they are quite liberal.
This stove requires a minimum chimney height of 13 feet
(4 m). The maximum allowable chimney height is 30 feet
(9m).
Personally I think 13 feet is for a straight-up insulated SS flue. Your 20 foot tall oversize masonry with two 90 degree bends I would compare to about 10 feet of SS flue. I'm not sure where you are measuring 20 feet from.
 
The sweep did not use a meter, just swagged it, but the draft was 'very strong' (i.e. a ~ 1 foot piece of tissue was strongly sucked toward the flue as soon as the fireplace damper was cracked a bit - I know this is crude) and I made sure the pellet stove had been out for ~ 15 hours - so, the chimney was likely as cool as it was going to get. Although the chimney extends to the basement, I'll measure if for the first floor (~ 8 feet), second floor (8 feet), attic (5 feet) and outside (3 feet). I'll only have one 90 bend, since the stove is a top vent. So, reducing chimney height by 5 feet for the one 90, I figure overall chimney height of 19 feet (sound about right?). I guess I'm thinking why not give it a go - and if it won't draft strongly enough, have a plan to install the liner before the snow flies.
 
It's not to manufacturer specs, but if it was me and I couldnt afford $1K or so to get a liner installed, I would try it. But you would want to be sure to have it pass inspection and submit that info to the insurance company prior to lighting it off.
 
NH_Wood said:
Although the chimney extends to the basement, I'll measure if for the first floor (~ 8 feet), second floor (8 feet), attic (5 feet) and outside (3 feet). I'll only have one 90 bend, since the stove is a top vent. So, reducing chimney height by 5 feet for the one 90, I figure overall chimney height of 19 feet (sound about right?)...
I think the chimney (flue) length needs to be measured from the top of the stove, not from the floor, so 5+8+5+3=21 feet. There are two 90 degree bends, not one. Vertical leaving the stove to a 90 going horizontal to the masonry and then back to vertical again.
 
Oh, one other thing. Does the masonry chimney meet NFPA 211? An open fireplace has lower temps up the flue since it is diluted with room air. An enclosed fire (stove) can sustain higher flue temps. That is the primary reason to install an insulated liner, to meet NFPA 211, not to achieve optimum draft. Optimum draft and a cleaner flue is icing on the cake.
 
Hmmm......not sure about the flue meeting that particular code - will have to check into that. Didn't realize that the single 90 elbow at the tap = two 90's - thanks!
One last thought - thinking disconnecting the pellet stove in mid-March and do the install of the Mansfield then (while we still have cold temps in southern NH. I can give the stove a couple of weeks of burns to see how the setup works, and if there are issues, I'll have the summer and fall to install the rigid liner through the ceilings and roof. Not trying to do something poorly, just going for possible efficiency and $ savings! Cheers!
 
Shari - thanks again for the info. Just called my insurance company and nothing special required beyond the professional sweeps approval.
 
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