Upgrade question 1

[Bootlegger]

I bought a house 2 years ago with a late 70's Fisher stove. We've used it to heat our home in central Kentucky the last two years. At times we've supplemented with electric heat, but I've pulled out most of the baseboard heating and started the process of replacing old windows, adding insulation and new siding outside, and generally sealing up the house. We'd like to go without any electric heat from this point forward. I have two questions about our upgrade issues. Here is question 1:

Our local chimney sweep just left. Our Fisher produced very little creosote over the last two years of burning but did need a general cleaning. He comes highly recommended and we will use him for the upgrade. He is about to become a dealer for Jotul and Pacific Energy. I can see the Jotul is well regarded here.

Our plan is to replace the old Fisher downstairs and add a small insert to the upstairs fireplace. The house is 2200 sf, with an open stairway and last year I added vents to the floor to help the warm air rise upstairs. We use our ceiling fans to help mix but the master BR upstairs in the NW corner still stays chilly even with new windows, insulation and sealing (though much better than the first year). The sweep/dealer said the Fisher is working fairly well, not as well as a new unit but the lack of creosote means its burning fairly efficiently (and my wood, to my shame, is not well-cured; but I'm getting there). In a world where the sky's the limit I spend $2000 on a large free-standing stove downstairs and about $1500 for the upstairs insert. Install downstairs is $500, upstairs with the new liner it will be $1500. So close to $6000 all together.
My question is multiple choice, do I:
A) Go for broke, get them both done no matter the cost.
B) Just do the upstairs figuring the Fisher has some more life in it
C) Replace the Fisher first and see if the new stove provides more heat than the Fisher.
We may not be able to afford A so keep that in mind when rendering opinions.

1b: Jotul v. Pacific Energy?

 

[Jags]

What model of Fisher are you currently running? Maybe consider running a Summit (PE) as a replacement. Lots of BTUs. Are you married to the idea of limiting yourself to those 2 brands? Although both are quality stoves, there are many more brands on the market. Maybe a Blaze King (King).

 

[CTburning]

Just because you don't have that much creosote in the chimney doesn't mean you are burning efficiently. In my old smoke dragon, the chimney cleaned itself. I never had more than a dusting on the walls of the outside chimney. I constantly feed the beast and ran her hot or not. A lot of the heat went up the chimney and that is why I never had a problem with creosote. How well did the fisher heat the whole house on it's own. I know you are not suppossed to heat the house from the basement but in my ranch it seems to work. I am in a similair situation in that I have a fireplace upstairs. I thought of putting an insert in there and still might someday. I am going to do it in stages. I put the Fireview in the basement and I'm going to give it a shot this year. If it needs help I'll buy an insert in a couple of years. No matter what you decide, you are going to second guess yourself. My advice, take it in steps. good luck

 

[snowtime]

I would replace the downstairs stove first. A big [at least 3cf] stove will be the ticket. After you have used it for a while you can decide if you need a new insert upstairs. It would be nice to not have to feed 2 stoves. I suspect that a Summit or T6 like I have will take care of your place. My installation has the stove near the stairs so lots of hot air can make its way up, we have a curtain to regulate how much goes up. If your installation is far from the open stairs then it will be harder to get the heat needed up stairs. As for your vents I would not think they would help much unless the main heater is right under them. You need concentrated heat not diffused warm air. One thing that may help is to put a fan blowing down one of the vents. To get air up you need to move air down. Also vents can be a fire hazard check the regs in your area.

 

[Bootlegger]

What model of Fisher are you currently running? Maybe consider running a Summit (PE) as a replacement. Lots of BTUs. Are you married to the idea of limiting yourself to those 2 brands? Although both are quality stoves, there are many more brands on the market. Maybe a Blaze King (King).

It's a Fisher Mama Bear.

Blaze King is harder to get around here. According to their website I'd have to go to Ohio. I don't have any brand loyalty, but those two brands will be carried by my local contractor who is recommended by EVERYONE in the area. He'll service and do warranty work if needed.

 

[Bootlegger]

Just because you don't have that much creosote in the chimney doesn't mean you are burning efficiently. In my old smoke dragon, the chimney cleaned itself. I never had more than a dusting on the walls of the outside chimney. I constantly feed the beast and ran her hot or not. A lot of the heat went up the chimney and that is why I never had a problem with creosote. How well did the fisher heat the whole house on it's own. I know you are not suppossed to heat the house from the basement but in my ranch it seems to work. I am in a similair situation in that I have a fireplace upstairs. I thought of putting an insert in there and still might someday. I am going to do it in stages. I put the Fireview in the basement and I'm going to give it a shot this year. If it needs help I'll buy an insert in a couple of years. No matter what you decide, you are going to second guess yourself. My advice, take it in steps. good luck

The Fisher does pretty well, it only fails to heat the whole house in the teens and then only misses the master BR. I get your point about the creosote. It ate lots of wood, but again wasn't well seasoned (better this year though). I put an oven thermometer on top and ran it up to 400F then cut it back to between 200-300 which seemed to heat ok. I didn't like going over 400 because the unit would start to snap, crackle and pop and the wife would wake me up to go down and check the stove because it "smells like something is burning".

I leaning toward "steps".

 

[Todd]

I say go with a new insert and keep the Fisher for a few more years. Your upstairs will be much warmer with the heat in that space and you could just fire up the Fisher once in awhile to keep the chill out of the basement or maybe upgrade later if you think you need to. If you get a new or larger stove in the basement it will probably heat the house a little better than the Fisher, but it will still be cooler upstairs than down no matter how many holes you cut in the floor.

 

[Bootlegger]

I would replace the downstairs stove first. A big [at least 3cf] stove will be the ticket. After you have used it for a while you can decide if you need a new insert upstairs. It would be nice to not have to feed 2 stoves. I suspect that a Summit or T6 like I have will take care of your place. My installation has the stove near the stairs so lots of hot air can make its way up, we have a curtain to regulate how much goes up. If your installation is far from the open stairs then it will be harder to get the heat needed up stairs. As for your vents I would not think they would help much unless the main heater is right under them. You need concentrated heat not diffused warm air. One thing that may help is to put a fan blowing down one of the vents. To get air up you need to move air down. Also vents can be a fire hazard check the regs in your area.

I like the Pacific Energy Summit with the pedestal. Looks great and has a 3 cf box.

I had not thought about the vents as a fire hazard. One is directly over the stove, the other on the other side of the 2nd floor great room. I figured the vents would let up the hottest air and let the cool air spill down the open stairs. Our open floor plan has great rooms around the chimneys and rooms off to the sides. The stairs are from great room to great room.

 

[Bootlegger]

I say go with a new insert and keep the Fisher for a few more years. Your upstairs will be much warmer with the heat in that space and you could just fire up the Fisher once in awhile to keep the chill out of the basement or maybe upgrade later if you think you need to. If you get a new or larger stove in the basement it will probably heat the house a little better than the Fisher, but it will still be cooler upstairs than down no matter how many holes you cut in the floor.

It's not a basement, it's a split entry so the first floor is open on three sides, the 4th side faces the hill the house is built on and the house is turned around so the split entry is in back (only half "buried"). But I get your point, without a heat source upstairs it will always be cooler.

 

[fredarm]

I say go with a new insert and keep the Fisher for a few more years. Your upstairs will be much warmer with the heat in that space and you could just fire up the Fisher once in awhile to keep the chill out of the basement or maybe upgrade later if you think you need to. If you get a new or larger stove in the basement it will probably heat the house a little better than the Fisher, but it will still be cooler upstairs than down no matter how many holes you cut in the floor.

Might be tough to heat the whole house with small insert. How big an insert can you get in the upstairs fireplace? I have the small PE insert, the Vista. I was limited by the size of the fireplace. It's a great unit but is pretty much supplemental heat (my house is 1900 sf). It won't hold a fire overnight. So with a Vista I think you would be running the Fisher frequently in colder weather. If you can get one of the larger PE inserts in your fireplace (Super or Summit), you would use the Fisher less.

Another thought--got a Home Depot or Lowes near you? Replace the Fisher with an Englander 30NC. Its 3.5 cubic foot firebox may be all you need!

 

[wellbuilt home]

I would try a larger more efficient stove down stairs . If its cold in the bed room just turn up the heat , one room wont cost much to heat and most of the time it will be warm enough .
I don't like burning 2 stoves
I would rather burn one large stove because of the longer burn times.
John

 

[Bootlegger]

I don't like burning 2 stoves
I would rather burn one large stove because of the longer burn times.
John

Doing one upgrade at a time seems to be the consensus, along with putting the Fisher out to pasture. Anyone else like the Big Box store stoves? How hard could it be to install it myself to the existing flue system? It was upgraded just before I bought the house, it's in great shape and easy to service.

 

[BrotherBart]

Anyone else like the Big Box store stoves? How hard could it be to install it myself to the existing flue system? It was upgraded just before I bought the house, it's in great shape and easy to service.

Didn't buy the Englander 30-NC at a box store but they sell them there. Sucker heats this 2,500 sq. ft. center hall colonial house just fine. Of course most people don't think we have winter in Virginia, but I don't like being cold and we don't have any other heat source. :smirk:

 

[Bootlegger]

Anyone else like the Big Box store stoves? How hard could it be to install it myself to the existing flue system? It was upgraded just before I bought the house, it's in great shape and easy to service.

Didn't buy the Englander 30-NC at a box store but they sell them there. Sucker heats this 2,500 sq. ft. center hall colonial house just fine. Of course most people don't think we have winter in Virginia, but I don't like being cold and we don't have any other heat source. :smirk:

Then you're at about my latitude.
Lowes certainly has an inviting price on that model. Big firebox, qualifies for the tax rebate and very low emission (1.63 g/hr). It comes with a pedestal option. One issue, my Fisher is a rear vent and the existing ductwork goes up through an old brick fireplace. Can I attach a top vent to rear vent ductwork? If not I have to find a rear vent stove.

 

[crazy_dan]

I was gonna buy an Englander 30 a few years back when I upgraded, but nobody had 1 in stock here and it was going to be about $20 difference than getting the PE summit. so I bought a summit mostly because I could have it today. There are quite a few folks here burning and loving their Englander stoves, I would not hesitate on buying one. If your sweep is not a dealer yet you could always see if would install your stove for you if youa re hesitant to do it yourself, Having said that installing a wood stove is not rocket science it just requires heavy lifting.

 

[firefighterjake]

I would suggest replacing the Fisher based on the fact that it sounds as though this is not really a basement install, but is in fact in actual living space . . . a new stove would be more efficient and result in more heat not going up the chimney and less wood usage . . . and the tax credit right now is one of those once in a lifetime opportunities.

If only one bedroom right now is chilly, I think going with a little bigger, more modern stove would work well . . . and who knows, depending on how you position fans a new stove might heat that area with no problem . . . and if it doesn't . . . just running one electric heater in that one room on low shouldn't be too exorbitant of a cost.

Also, if you were to put in an insert would it share the same flue as the woodstove downstairs? This could be a potential issue.

I definitely would consider many other models besides the Jotul and PE . . . although both of these models are highly rated . . . Englanders, Blaze Kings, Woodstocks . . . many others are also very good.

 

[fredarm]

One thing to bear in mind on the Englander. It (along with a lot of other stoves) has a ceramic fiberboard baffle on the top of the firebox. There have been several dicussions on this issue, but my impression is that you have to be a little careful when loading the stove so you don't hit it too hard with a log, which can damage the baffle. The PE stoves have a stainless steel baffle. With my little Vista, I hit the baffle often while loading. With the NC-30, I imagine it's less of an issue because of the size of the firebox.

 

[Bootlegger]

The wife and I decided to replace the Fisher with the Englander (Summers) at Lowes. The 3.5 cf/2200 sf stove is a ridiculous $999 right now on the Lowes website.

My only concern now is whether I can attach a top venting stove to my existing rear venting flue system. I can't change the flue as it runs up through and existing brick fireplace and chimney. Can I attach a top vent stove to a rear vent system? (My first guess is no, but its a guess based on the fact that smoke has to rise.)

 

[Wet1]

There has to be rise in the system. Another option might be penetrating the flue several feet above the fireplace. Talk to your sweep and see if he thinks he could do this. It's usually a matter of knocking out a few bricks, boring through the clay liner (if you have one), and then going from there. The rough hole will be covered by a thimble.

 

[Bootlegger]

There has to be rise in the system. Another option might be penetrating the flue several feet above the fireplace. Talk to your sweep and see if he thinks he could do this. It's usually a matter of knocking out a few bricks, boring through the clay liner (if you have one), and then going from there. The rough hole will be covered by a thimble.

I figured as much. I think the sweep had this in mind when he quoted a price of $500 to install into my existing flue system. At the time I couldn't believe how expensive it would be to simply hook up a new stove. Answer, it ain't so simple!