upgrading from the smoke dragon(see pics).... BIG insert suggestions...

[WoodButcher80]

hey guys . well , the old baker fireside is doing great(seen below) , but am looking to become more 'green' . ok , that was a joke .
the baker works great , its a big firebox , i can fit 20-22" logs in, but it was primarily designed for coal but i burn oak maple and hickory in my 2000 sq ft house because , well , i get the wood for free and anthracite costs money .it has shaker grates that the wood sits on , which are helpful in removing ashes from the ash door while burning , but im sure dont help in complete combustion.

if i bank the stove at night , then open the air up for about 25 minutes to crank it to about 500 on the door , and then choke it down almost completely , ill get 7 hour burns with enough coals (handful or two) in the morning to start up a few wrist sized pieces in the morning in about 5 minutes . while cooking around 350-450, shell burn about 1 piece per hour of normal sized wood. typical.

not a bad gig at all . but shes not all that efficient . its from the 80s im assuming . a friend has a soapstone non cat newer epa stove with the secondary air tubes and we can put 3 pieces in and those blue ladies wil dance ontop of the logs for what seems like 5 hours. . . completely controlled . less air knobs to fuss with , no glass tinting after 5 hours etc .

so its time .... . i am looking for long burn times and efficiency thats worth me doing all this work.
i have a 7" stainless flue pipe(shouldnt be an issue going to 6" or 8" newer stove) all the way up my 17' high chimney, with a flue adapter on my stove now . blockoff plate installed too by me.

i get good heat and geat draft . the room the stoves in is a concrete slab(heat robbing), 3 walls are outside walls, and the chimney is external ... but in the dead of winter (15-20 degrees) itll be 70-72 degrees downstairs(house is only 20yrs old), and still keep the bedrooms in the 2nd floor of the colonial house at about 66-68 degrees, down to about 62-64 when i wake up in the AM . not bad ... but i know i can get more efficiency . the furnace is set at 63 , and about 10 nights a year it might kick on in the AM before i get up .

the stoves im looking at right now are :

1. quadra fire 5100i . good luck with this one , cant find any used and new is just too much .

2. jotul c 550 . nice stove , close to same size as quadra fire.

3. buck model 91 . shes a cat stove, so i am not too keen on that, but theres one locally for 1200 in great shape.

4. napoleon 1402 .. its a bit smaller than the baker, but doable .

5. blaze king princess . solid stove .

i want to squeeze as much stove in there as i can . the 5100i seems to fit to the T (its 2" deeper than my baker, but 2" thinner too) .

my dimensions are as follows :
fireplace overall width is 35" in the very front ,
but tapers to 27.5" wide at 15.5" deep into the smoke chamber.
my baker fits very snug in there, and is 24" high so height wont be an issue for the new stove.
i have 16" of brick hearth to lie the stove on thats sticking out of the fireplace, but i lay a big tile hearth pad so thats no worries.

let me know what you guys think . i dont need to upgrade , but love trying new things, and besides, i love burning wood too much to switch to coal .

thanks!

 

[jeff_t]

Add the PE Summit and Osburn 2400 to your list.

 

[kingquad]

Scratch the Napoleon, it's too small
Some more to consider
Lopi freedom
Regency 3100i
Buck 94
Kuma Sequoia
Country Flame BBF

I would give that Buck 91 a serious look. That's a great price. Don't be afraid of cat stoves.

 

[dafattkidd]

I have the Osburn 2400 and I'm very happy with it. I was on a tight budget and found it to be the most firebox I could get for my money. 3.2 cf firebox it takes a 20" split NS and 22.5" EW. I got a great deal at www.dynamitebuy.com Hope that helps.

That being said I would definitely be checking out that Buck for that price.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Buck Model 91 - 4.4 cu ft of firebox
Country Flame model BBF - 3.9 cu ft firebox

 

[WoodButcher80]

Hey guys.
Thanks for all the suggestions! That's a lot of stoves that'll fit in my fireplace opening ... ill take the Napoleon off the list and add the others ...
Wow ... I didn't know the buck was that big! That firebox is huge compared to what I'm dealing with now. I don't really know enough about cat stoves to love em or hate em. I guess I can swing over his house and check it out ... any suggestions on what to look for to gauge how much it was used? He said it was a 2006 model. I wonder if the catalyst has to be replaced ....

Also I called a local Quadra Fire dealer and they have a 5100i floor model for 1900$ . I am gonna look on that Tuesday since ill be in that area, and am told the fit and finish of those Quadra stoves is remarkable.

Let me know your thoughts ...

 

[jeff_t]

Depending on how it was treated, and the wood burned, the Buck will probably need cat replacement soon. Look for discoloration, cracked welds, obvious signs of overfire. The price might be on the high side, but Buck does build a solid stove. Better take a measuring tape, too. No idea what will fit, just suggestions for big inserts.
Also keep in mind that your 7" liner is only about 75% of the 8" that Buck specifies for that stove. May or may not be an issue.

 

[WoodButcher80]

thanks for the input.
the lopi freedom bay wont fit as its 29 1/4" wide in the back , and thats at 15 3/4" deep .. but the regular freedom will .
that buck 94 is real nice . i like the bay windows, just like the quadra . i wonder if the bay windows have the air wash too to keep them cleaner?

$1900 a good price on the new floor model 5100i ? the way i figure it . .. i plan on using the stove in this house for about 10 years and possibly the next house too... so spending 700$ more on the brand new non cat quadra fire than the used buck 91 is a good investment.

 

[kingquad]

Awesome price on that Quad 5100. The Buck 91 will have an 8 inch flue. The Quad will have 6 inch. Definitely something to consider. An 8 inch flue wouldn't work in my chimney.

 

[WoodButcher80]

i have a stainless 7" flue liner right now .. so itll work ok for both stoves. the impacts that 1" will have on the unit wont be drastic.

the way i see it.... lets say you get a quad requiring a 6" flue .... but your chimney is exterior from the house, non insulated flue liner, and short in height... those are ALL factors inhibiting optimal draft ... so a 7" might be just the ticket in that scenario (which happens to be my situation)... a little more draft .
just my 2 cents .

 

[Defiant]

Awesome price on that Quad 5100. The Buck 91 will have an 8 inch flue. The Quad will have 6 inch. Definitely something to consider. An 8 inch flue wouldn't work in my chimney.

Quad, PE, or Regency, take your time and research.

 

[Hogwildz]

i have a stainless 7" flue liner right now .. so itll work ok for both stoves. the impacts that 1" will have on the unit wont be drastic.

the way i see it.... lets say you get a quad requiring a 6" flue .... but your chimney is exterior from the house, non insulated flue liner, and short in height... those are ALL factors inhibiting optimal draft ... so a 7" might be just the ticket in that scenario (which happens to be my situation)... a little more draft .
just my 2 cents .

Actually. a larger stack may create a sluggish draft.

 

[jeff_t]

Area of a 6" circle is 28.26 sq in, 7" is 38.47, 8" is 50.24. Not trying to argue, but most don't think that inch or two is a big deal. The difference is more apparent when you do the math. And like Hogz says, smaller pipe in the same situation generally sucks harder than the larger one. The bigger one will move a larger volume of air, with less velocity.

 

[WoodButcher80]

well thats good to know then . i had my theory but always wondered how big of a deal it really would be .

 

[jeff_t]

well thats good to know then . i had my theory but always wondered how big of a deal it really would be .

Likely won't be an problem, but EPA stoves are more sensitive to draft issues, and your chimney setup is already less than ideal. Maybe consider pour-in insulation for that liner.

 

[mellow]

Buck wants an 8" flue for that 91, nothing smaller or you will get smoke spillage when you open the door. That is a a lot of stove, from what I learned they match the exhaust size to the door size so when you have the door open it will still have enough draft.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Buck wants an 8" flue for that 91, nothing smaller or you will get smoke spillage when you open the door. That is a a lot of stove, from what I learned they match the exhaust size to the door size so when you have the door open it will still have enough draft.

Not necessarily. If he has a good draft and is using a 7" liner I think he would be okay. At least I would do it if the stove met my needs.

Also, lot of buck stoves, even the sub-3 cu ft fireboxes have 8" flue. I find that to be odd, and seemingly, unneeded.

 

[mellow]

My Appalachian comes with an 8" exhaust, but they also certified it to work on 6" and include an adapter, Buck does not do this. Without the manufacture's blessing in writing I would not do it.

 

[BrowningBAR]

My Appalachian comes with an 8" exhaust, but they also certified it to work on 6" and include an adapter, Buck does not do this. Without the manufacture's blessing in writing I would not do it.

And I disagree with this. With a good draft, the stove should run fine and I personally would not hesitate running a stove with an 8" flue on a 7" liner on my chimneys.

My Encore 0028 was only rated to be used with an 8" flue. Years later, the stove has maintained the same design, but can now be run with a 6" or 8" flue. I run the Encore with a 6" liner with no problems.

And with a good draft the difference between 8" and 7" should be minimal. I ran a Vigilant with a 6" liner that was only rated for an 8" flue. Had a great draft, no smoke spillage, and less creosote build-up than many others that ran the same stove.

I am not recommending people ignore the manufacturer's flue/liner recommendations, but in this case, I do not see a problem with using a 7" liner on a Buck stove providing the owner has a good chimney height and draft.

 

[Hogwildz]

I know of at least a couple members that had to go with a smaller diameter liner to get through their chimney and have reported excellent draft. While this may not be the case every time, it seems to work. Going larger than spec'd may also work, but may also not draft as well. If the stove is not under warranty, the manufacturer's blessing is useless. There is no one answer fixes all questions, so a blanket generalized answer is also useless. I'd much rather go down a seize than up, but if need be, it would not hurt to try either way.

 

[mellow]

I am just saying my 2 cents, I called and talked to Buck and other cat stove makers about putting an 8" exhaust stove on a 6" 25 foot insulated liner and only Appalachian would certify the install. I do get some slight smoke spillage but I am hoping that will go away with a stronger draft in the winter.

If it was me I would go for a 6" stove.

 

[dafattkidd]

I would jump on that quad. Those are beautiful. Just double check the measurements to ensure it will fit.

 

[WoodButcher80]

didnt mean to start a chimney liner debate .... its nice to hear different opinions on the matter. im gonna go take a gander at the quadra tomorrow just to check it out ...
i dont like that the 5100i doesnt have an ash pan drawer ... i guess its gonna be something i get used to as a bunch of stoves seem like they dont nowadays.
my friend has a modern stove and it has a little secret ash door on the floor of the stove and he just opens it and pushes the ashes in and they fall into the ash pan for easy removal .

im sure once i get an ash vacuum (love less) or one of those ash scoopers ill be ok .
its just i burn 24/7 for 5 months, non stop . them ashes can add up and i wouldnt want to disturb my coal bed in the morning . im sure ill get the hang of it .

​

 

[WoodpileOCD]

thanks for the input.
the lopi freedom bay wont fit as its 29 1/4" wide in the back , and thats at 15 3/4" deep .. but the regular freedom will .
that buck 94 is real nice . i like the bay windows, just like the quadra . i wonder if the bay windows have the air wash too to keep them cleaner?

$1900 a good price on the new floor model 5100i ? the way i figure it . .. i plan on using the stove in this house for about 10 years and possibly the next house too... so spending 700$ more on the brand new non cat quadra fire than the used buck 91 is a good investment.

No air wash on the side bay windows and I'd like to know if ANYONE has been able to keep them clean. Mine just stay black. I gave up. By the way, the Buck 91 is an awesome stove and don't be afraid of the cats. Without getting into the age old argument, I never had a stove with cats before and it took very little time to figure them out and now I don't think I would own another without them.

 

[BrowningBAR]

No air wash on the side bay windows and I'd like to know if ANYONE has been able to keep them clean. Mine just stay black. I gave up. By the way, the Buck 91 is an awesome stove and don't be afraid of the cats. Without getting into the age old argument, I never had a stove with cats before and it took very little time to figure them out and now I don't think I would own another without them.

What type of burn times are you getting out of that stove? I've always wanted to try one. Never had the opportunity. Your in NC, so you are dealing with a mild winter climate, I am assuming.