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UPS back up thought?

Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by sleepie, Dec 12, 2007.

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  1. sleepie

    sleepie New Member

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    can i hook up an apc---ups----to a deep cycle battery for more time to run a pellet stove?---my thought is to remove the ups battery and hook up a deep cycle batt---any thoughts or places to look will be appri...thanks pat

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  2. Jags

    Jags Moderate Moderator Staff Member

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    AAAArrrggggg. This is a tough one and its hurting my brain. (by the way, you should probably expect this to be moved to a different area by the mods shortly)

    2 schools of thought:

    1. 12 Volts DC is 12 Volts. Larger battery = longer run time when converted to 110V AC.

    2. Battery in UPS is designed with an Ah (amp henry) rating. This means the battery is designed to produce a given output for x amount of time. Will increasing the Ah (bigger battery) have any adverse effect on the AC converter, or is this going to be regulated by the amount of load (stove requirements).

    I really can't answer without knowing more about the converter in your UPS and the power output of the UPS (and the power requirements of your stove).

    I personally would run a couple of tests with metering the draw on the battery, but I understand that most people either don't have the equipment or "want" to do such a thing. The tell tale sign would be to hook this thing up to your stove with the original battery. Turn the stove on and meter the amp draw on the battery.
    Hook up big battery and then run the same test. If the amp draw doesn't change, then you are probably in pretty good shape.

    WARNING: Please be aware that the "recharging" circuit on your UPS might not like you if you have a bigger than normal battery that gets drained and needs to be recharged.

    Side note: You may consider getting another "identical" battery to the UPS battery and hooking them up in parallel for your extended run time. This is probably the safest method, but you are still going to have the same issues with increased Ah output and recharging of a drained system.
  3. sleepie

    sleepie New Member

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    i thought after a outage --i would just charge the deep cycle battery with a reg charger ,bring it back and then hookup again--i don't think the charger in the ups is designed to charge a deep cycle---thanks for the advice--pat
  4. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    There are many variables here, it would depend on the UPS size, the stove and it's running amperage. It would also assume manual starting for longest running time. But short answer is yes, it can and has been done. The additional value of a good ups will be power conditioning which will protect against spikes and low voltages more common in some rural areas.

    There are several postings on this. Search on UPS battery backup. Here's a starter.

    http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/10018/
  5. mkmh

    mkmh New Member

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    I always intended to go forward with one of these set-ups, but I chickened out
    http://www.butkus.org/ups/ups.htm

    I'm really not all that handy with electric work (outlets and basics, ok...but that is about the limit). This is dangerous stuff, so you have to know exactly what you are doing and take every safety precaution possible.
  6. sleepie

    sleepie New Member

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    i did find that in search---i am going with it and will let you people know how it turns out---well i'm off to the drawing board---thanks for all your help---pat
  7. pete324rocket

    pete324rocket Feeling the Heat

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    a lot of terms floating around...an uninteruptable power supply (ups) should be rated to power enough wattage to safely power the pellet stove AND provide a clean enough regulated a.c. voltage that you would be comfortable plugging any electronic device into. What was the original purpose of the ups -if just to power some emergency lights I would be wary.
    Keep in mind that the most power will be drawn when lighting the stove with the ignitor - you could do this manually - you may want to try the procedure before waiting for a power outage. A deep cycle battery should be just fine if the previous conditions are met and would be preferred - as long as the voltage is the same - 12 volts - it will provide more amp/hours of backup. When the power returns,it will charge just the same.
  8. sleepie

    sleepie New Member

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    ok sat--i purchased a ups----apc 2200xl for 75.00--craigslist-opened it up and it looks real simple---have to get the deep cycle batterys ---will keep you posted as this evolves---pat
  9. sleepie

    sleepie New Member

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    well,,,all done--went to wally world and got 4 12v deep cycle marine batts 125 amp hr,,charged them up and connected them in series for a total of 48volts---to my total amasement it works and works great---i waited about 5 hrs and faked a power outage--this thing kicked in without a hitch---i did change the batt cables in the ups,apc2200xl---i wanted a heavy cable--i used 4 gauge cable---all in all i'm very pleased with the outcome,,,,now what to use this for in the summer????---anybody have any thoughts--i was thinking building a solar pre-heated for hot water and have the batts power a circulator pump----cheers----pat
  10. jamorris

    jamorris New Member

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    I am planning a solar charged UPS for my stove and a few other item. There is also the possibility of adding a wind turbine charger that ought to extend the system through and blizzard that might occur. When LED lighting becomes more available, that too, will go into the Solar UPS. The batteries are the real key. Get the best you can find, google solar power and the batteries should be accessible there. The line of power is solar cells/charger/batteries/inverter. The inverter can be dropped, if you can run straight 12VDC.

    Jerry
  11. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Awesome, keep a close eye on the battery fluids and you should have a great system for years. No need to go to 4 ga cable, the max load rating and charging amperage is way lower than this unless the batteries are located far away from the charger. But it won't hurt anything, though copper is getting very expensive.

    Also, treat that battery assembly with great respect. A short will turn it into a high-powered welder quickly. Make sure there is no opportunity for this.
  12. tinkabranc

    tinkabranc Minister of Fire

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    Ok- dumb question here.

    You guys now have me completely confused now.
    I thought an inverter with marine batteries were different than using a UPS?
    I understand that UPS has batteries in it but I thought they were internal.

    Help
  13. jamorris

    jamorris New Member

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    A set of batteries running an inverter is not a UPS. It is an alternative, or reserve power source. To be UPS, it needs a continuous power input to feed the system and run the appliance. If he has a charger that can shunt excess current to the inverter/appliance, then it is a UPS.

    Jerry
  14. bit_flores

    bit_flores Member

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    The upshot to your question is yes. As long as your APC is a 12v DC system, you can rig it up to run off a 12v marine battery.

    Turn OFF your APC, unplug the APC, then take the cover off of your APC. Take a VOM and set it to read DC volts. Place the tips of the VOM across red and black main battery leads that come of the APC circuit board. Your should now be reading the battery source voltage of the APC. If it is 12 volts, then you can use a 12V marine battery.

    The other way is to goto APC.com and look up the specifications for your APC unit.

    I have read other forum posts where other people have converted that APC battery source to marine batteries. Google this topic and I am sure you will get some hits. I currently use an APC 1000 with new standard APC replacement batteries that were installed this summer. It ran fine an hour during a early November power outage here in Cleveland. I had my Breckwell Cadet P26 running at about C setting. My settings run from A to F. The APC had plenty of juice left running after an hour. The house kept warm. So running an APC with marine batteries should give you longer run times. Just make sure that you use the plastic battery boxes and wire it with proper wire and connectors.
  15. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Most UPS batteries are 12 v but on the higher power units, it can be connected in series battery packs that run the UPS on 12, 24 or in sleepie's case, even 48vdc.

    The advantage of running the system on a good UPS instead of an inverter is that the 120vac line is constantly power conditioned, even when the power is not out. That protects better against voltage dropout and spikes. The other advantage is the UPS has a charger for the battery, so it's an all in one solution.
  16. tinkabranc

    tinkabranc Minister of Fire

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    aaah! This makes sense to me again then.
    I work remotely and my workplace offered me two apc 1200 rs ups free that
    are currently sitting in storage. I was thinkin if I could take one of them and put it
    on my stove, but then got confused after reading these posts today.

    Thanks for clearing up my befuzzled brain on this one.

    edit: sorry, I did not mean to hijack this thread
  17. sleepie

    sleepie New Member

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    i also fused the positive and neg with buss fuses from auto zone--i used 32volt 100 amp fuses to be sure they would fail first in case of a problem---also to fine the batt voltage the ups used ,,i put volt meter on pos and neg cables from the unit--i orig.thought it was 24 volt sys--but as it turned out it is 48 volt---this particular unit apc 2200xl also has the ability to plug in another set of batts--i could put 4 more 12v 125 amp hr batts to this,,,,but i don't see the need at this time---i will keep an eye on this to see if any problems---but so far so good---the neat thing with this is i can be gone or sleep,,get an outage and it takes care of it without skipping a beat or my involvement---cheers pat
  18. sleepie

    sleepie New Member

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    well after a month everything is fine ,,the apc-ups model 2200xl even does a bi weekly check on its own,,,it shuts down house current the 110 its pluged into and runs on the batts,,does a full scale diagnostic,,if all fine ,goes back to house current---if something wrong it beeps--its great peace of mind---cheers pat
  19. sleepie

    sleepie New Member

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    just an update to this,,and this will be it,,,2 months have gone by and no problems at all---now i have to figure out what to use it for in the summer----cheers pat
  20. Shooter

    Shooter New Member

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    Go bass fishing! :)


    Hey, glad to hear it's working well. Thanx for posting good info.
  21. MButkus

    MButkus Member

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    I use mine for the projection TV and computers. Lighting storms and typical power variations.
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