Useful hints when you buy firewood split and delivered.

[RedRanger]

OK, let's look at this attitude. Think that that "new..in a jam....no storage" customer has any responsibility for getting information about say: the attorney, the car salesmen, the political candidates, the proctologist ? Firewood is a tough, labor intensive, low margin , dangerous business. It's a commodity that the poor "new..in a jam...no storage" customer thinks that he knows all about those "shady guys" and how they're just waiting to "rip you off".
If I were selling ANYTHING, or offering 'said customer' a professional service, I wouldn't. Not the kind of fool I want to deal with or have my people deal with. Period.
Stop whining. Get out. Do due diligence.[/quote]

Downeast: you are right on the money!! And imho dont bother looking for dry and or seasoned wood,it is practically non-existent-unless it is that wood that you have stacked and put away because you did your due dilegence first. Another key word in your post "responsibility"--yes, so little of that is exercised nowadays.

I don`t usually go back into a thread that I started,but just had to comment on your excellent reply ;-)

 

[SPED]

I think the way the shadier guys stay in business is that they aren't worried about repeat customers. For the most part those of us who buy seasoned wood are either new, in a jam, or have no storage. I would guess 90% of the people buying seasoned wood are not planning on doing it again and will be buying a year ahead after that. So by the time someone who gets ripped off knows better there's a whole new crop of people to rip off. That being said, one more good thing to ask firewood sellers is if they sell green and seasoned, may not mean anything but sometimes means they are actually looking for repeat customers.

OK, let's look at this attitude. Think that that "new..in a jam....no storage" customer has any responsibility for getting information about say: the attorney, the car salesmen, the political candidates, the proctologist ? Firewood is a tough, labor intensive, low margin , dangerous business. It's a commodity that the poor "new..in a jam...no storage" customer thinks that he knows all about those "shady guys" and how they're just waiting to "rip you off".
If I were selling ANYTHING, or offering 'said customer' a professional service, I wouldn't. Not the kind of fool I want to deal with or have my people deal with. Period.
Stop whining. Get out. Do due diligence.

Wow guys just trying to give my opinion thanks for totally ripping me a new one, real mature.

 

[downeast]

You are welcome.
Damn, it is lonely being correct.
JMNSHO. :vampire:

 

[SPED]

I'm not saying noone should take responsibility for what they are buying, don't get me started on the mortgage crisis. But on the same token, there ARE firewood sellers out there for the sole purpose of ripping people off, maybe your market is different but it does happen. Even those people who are somewhat savvy can get ripped off. Seasoned but left out in the rain is one good one. I've been burned before on seasoned wood, do I call the seller and complain? No I don't, I just chalk it up to lesson learned. But to say that the seller has no responsibility to deliver what they claim they are is just ignorant. It's hard to take you seriously preaching about responsibility when you leave NONE to the seller that their word about what they are selling is any good. Whatever happened to that responsibility?

 

[downeast]

I'm not saying noone should take responsibility for what they are buying, don't get me started on the mortgage crisis. But on the same token, there ARE firewood sellers out there for the sole purpose of ripping people off, maybe your market is different but it does happen. Even those people who are somewhat savvy can get ripped off. Seasoned but left out in the rain is one good one. I've been burned before on seasoned wood, do I call the seller and complain? No I don't, I just chalk it up to lesson learned. But to say that the seller has no responsibility to deliver what they claim they are is just ignorant. It's hard to take you seriously preaching about responsibility when you leave NONE to the seller that their word about what they are selling is any good. Whatever happened to that responsibility?

Take a ride down the road from you SPED. There you will find an institution based on a simple mission: Duty, Honor, Country.
Walk through the cemetary, read the stones. That is Responsibility.
Lest this sounds preachy: think. Only you can take control of any situation.
Dismissed.

 

[SPED]

Don't start preachin to me about that I know where that cemetery is, my uncle served and is buried there ahole.

 

[gyrfalcon]

I think the way the shadier guys stay in business is that they aren't worried about repeat customers. For the most part those of us who buy seasoned wood are either new, in a jam, or have no storage. I would guess 90% of the people buying seasoned wood are not planning on doing it again and will be buying a year ahead after that. So by the time someone who gets ripped off knows better there's a whole new crop of people to rip off. That being said, one more good thing to ask firewood sellers is if they sell green and seasoned, may not mean anything but sometimes means they are actually looking for repeat customers.

That entirely depends on where you live, what the wood-burning tradition is in the area (or lack of it) and who you're buying the wood from. One main reason I got exasperated with the suburbs and moved to the country was that I was heartily sick of the anonymity of workmen and suppliers of one thing or another who held that attitude. I didn't have a woodstove then, just a fireplace for occasional entertainment, and a good store of well-seasoned wood from a big tree cut down years before on our property. But I would pretty much assume that the wood suppliers there would rip me off if they could.

Where I live now in a small rural town in the Vermont countryside, there's obviously a long wood-burning tradition. Pretty much everybody has a wood stove, and many have no other source of heat. The vast majority of these stoves are big old-fashioned cast-iron honkers that could burn dirt. Around here, "seasoned" wood just means it wasn't a live tree last week. I know a couple people who have only wood heat and who go out and cut down a tree from their woodlots whenever they run out of wood and burn it as soon as they get it cut and split. They swear they have no creosote problems, too. And they must know what they're doing because chimney fires are rare.

I've learned on this site that modern EPA stoves like mine are much fussier about needing well-dried wood, but there are few of us around here who have them, so the standard for "seasoned" wood simply isn't what we need, and nobody's at fault for that. Nobody rips anybody off in a small town because the repercussions are too big. I've had two wood suppliers -- not dealers, just near-neighbors with woodlots who sell a few cords they cut and split on weekends -- utterly bewildered and dismayed that what they call "seasoned" is unburnable, or nearly so, in my stove.

The point being that my expectations simply don't match theirs, and there's no fault in that. I've learned, like everybody else, that I have to buy my wood green and let it season in the sun and wind on my property until it's dry enough for my stove.

So just a plea not to automatically assume that because somebody provides you with wood that's not seasoned enough for your stove that they're dishonest scum. Not to say that there aren't dishonest scum out there, but at least consider the possibility that your expectations and theirs simply don't match.

 

[cocey2002]

I have a new respect for people that do this. Until I got my fat arse out and cut my own wood I found out quickly that this is very hard work. Buy it early and season it yourself.

 

[johnsopi]

If you are buying wood can you go look at the wood before you buy it. It seems to me that that should be ok, after all I would not
buy a sofa sight unseen. I've always cut my wood so I don't know much about buying wood.

 

[SPED]

I think the way the shadier guys stay in business is that they aren't worried about repeat customers. For the most part those of us who buy seasoned wood are either new, in a jam, or have no storage. I would guess 90% of the people buying seasoned wood are not planning on doing it again and will be buying a year ahead after that. So by the time someone who gets ripped off knows better there's a whole new crop of people to rip off. That being said, one more good thing to ask firewood sellers is if they sell green and seasoned, may not mean anything but sometimes means they are actually looking for repeat customers.

That entirely depends on where you live, what the wood-burning tradition is in the area (or lack of it) and who you're buying the wood from. One main reason I got exasperated with the suburbs and moved to the country was that I was heartily sick of the anonymity of workmen and suppliers of one thing or another who held that attitude. I didn't have a woodstove then, just a fireplace for occasional entertainment, and a good store of well-seasoned wood from a big tree cut down years before on our property. But I would pretty much assume that the wood suppliers there would rip me off if they could.

Where I live now in a small rural town in the Vermont countryside, there's obviously a long wood-burning tradition. Pretty much everybody has a wood stove, and many have no other source of heat. The vast majority of these stoves are big old-fashioned cast-iron honkers that could burn dirt. Around here, "seasoned" wood just means it wasn't a live tree last week. I know a couple people who have only wood heat and who go out and cut down a tree from their woodlots whenever they run out of wood and burn it as soon as they get it cut and split. They swear they have no creosote problems, too. And they must know what they're doing because chimney fires are rare.

I've learned on this site that modern EPA stoves like mine are much fussier about needing well-dried wood, but there are few of us around here who have them, so the standard for "seasoned" wood simply isn't what we need, and nobody's at fault for that. Nobody rips anybody off in a small town because the repercussions are too big. I've had two wood suppliers -- not dealers, just near-neighbors with woodlots who sell a few cords they cut and split on weekends -- utterly bewildered and dismayed that what they call "seasoned" is unburnable, or nearly so, in my stove.

The point being that my expectations simply don't match theirs, and there's no fault in that. I've learned, like everybody else, that I have to buy my wood green and let it season in the sun and wind on my property until it's dry enough for my stove.

So just a plea not to automatically assume that because somebody provides you with wood that's not seasoned enough for your stove that they're dishonest scum. Not to say that there aren't dishonest scum out there, but at least consider the possibility that your expectations and theirs simply don't match.

Very nicely explained, a LOT depends on where you are at. And having matching expectations is a big thing. To clarify what I'm talking about on guys that rip people off.... I'm talking about a situation where you ask them all the pertinent questions, when was it cut/split, was it stacked off the ground etc. And still having them show up with wood you know they split that morning even though they said it was split last year. Are there good seasoned wood guys out there? I'm sure there are, the guy I found that sold me my green wood this year sells seasoned and I asked him about it just out of curiousity, and it sounds legitimately seasoned, he charges more than the fly by night guys, and I'm sure you get what you pay for with him.

And completely OT, I've just about had it with where I live too, not b/c of the firewood but a lot of what you say about everyone being "anonymous". The wife and I are seriously considering moving and getting some acreage. Now cutting/splitting my own that'd be the ultimate.... Hey a guy can dream right ;-)

 

[gyrfalcon]

Very nicely explained, a LOT depends on where you are at. And having matching expectations is a big thing. To clarify what I'm talking about on guys that rip people off.... I'm talking about a situation where you ask them all the pertinent questions, when was it cut/split, was it stacked off the ground etc. And still having them show up with wood you know they split that morning even though they said it was split last year. Are there good seasoned wood guys out there? I'm sure there are, the guy I found that sold me my green wood this year sells seasoned and I asked him about it just out of curiousity, and it sounds legitimately seasoned, he charges more than the fly by night guys, and I'm sure you get what you pay for with him.

And completely OT, I've just about had it with where I live too, not b/c of the firewood but a lot of what you say about everyone being "anonymous". The wife and I are seriously considering moving and getting some acreage. Now cutting/splitting my own that'd be the ultimate.... Hey a guy can dream right ;-)

Well, yeah, that sure sounds like dishonest scum all right.

If you can get a decent price for your house in this market, come on up! Don't know what it's like on the other side of the lake in NY state, but country people in Vermont are just about uniformly honest and friendly. I've found the guys that come to clean my boiler or my chimney or pump my septic treat me like a neighbor and a likely new friend, not like even like a customer, really. Property's more expensive here than across the lake, but it's still pretty cheap compared to the suburbs. And people drive saner here, too! You have to get used to a slower pace of life, though. The wood guy may not deliver precisely when you want, but he'll get around to it in a while.

 

[SPED]

Where abouts are you? I lived in burlington/essex for a couple years. And I agree, when hanging out with friends who lived way outside town, people were friendlier/more helpful etc. Nice area up there for sure.

 

[fugazi42]

We live in a fairly small town in Connecticut. It's kind of rural, but still close to the big cities in this area. I can sympathize with how hard it can be to find people to do good work these days- whether it be a firewood supplier, plumber, mechanic, whatever. That's why when I find someone who is honest, and does good work, I try to cultivate a relationship with them.. The first two guys I ever bought "seasoned" cordwood from won't be getting business from me ever again. They took advantage of my ignorance and dropped much less than a cord of perfectly green wood- a fact I found out only after I stacked and tried to burn it. My recourse is that, when asked, I'll recommend people stay away from them.

I now buy cordwood from a guy whose family owns a farm up the road from me. He sells wood during the winter down months. When he brings wood he delivers it stacked in the back of his dump truck bed so it's plain to see it's a cord. He stacks extremely tight, too, so when I restack it in my shed it usually comes out to 1.25 cords. He charges about $20 more than the cheapest guy around, but I know I can rely on it being an honest cord. The other upside is that in the spring/summer/fall we now buy all of our produce from their farm.

Likewise, after a couple of mistakes, I've been able to find a really good stove installer, chimney sweep, alarm guy, vet, oil supplier, septic, and house painter. I'll hang on to these guys as long as I can and recommend them to everyone. I'm still looking for a good snowplow guy, and someone who can do house repairs. No luck so far, and it may take a few more tries.

Josh

 

[gyrfalcon]

Where abouts are you? I lived in burlington/essex for a couple years. And I agree, when hanging out with friends who lived way outside town, people were friendlier/more helpful etc. Nice area up there for sure.

I'm in Shoreham, in the southwest corner of Addison County, pretty close to the middle of nowhere, nothing but family farms and orchards, not much in the way of recreation, so "summer people" are few and far between. The whole greater Burlington area has gotten pretty ugly, shopping malls and big box stores and condos and highways spreading like crazy. Gives me the heebeejeebees when I have to go up there for anything. (Don't want to be accused of thread hijacking, so better email privately if you want to talk more about real estate here, etc.!)

 

[bbc557ci]

I think the way the shadier guys stay in business is that they aren't worried about repeat customers. For the most part those of us who buy seasoned wood are either new, in a jam, or have no storage. I would guess 90% of the people buying seasoned wood are not planning on doing it again and will be buying a year ahead after that. So by the time someone who gets ripped off knows better there's a whole new crop of people to rip off. That being said, one more good thing to ask firewood sellers is if they sell green and seasoned, may not mean anything but sometimes means they are actually looking for repeat customers.

OK, let's look at this attitude. Think that that "new..in a jam....no storage" customer has any responsibility for getting information about say: the attorney, the car salesmen, the political candidates, the proctologist ? Firewood is a tough, labor intensive, low margin , dangerous business. It's a commodity that the poor "new..in a jam...no storage" customer thinks that he knows all about those "shady guys" and how they're just waiting to "rip you off".
If I were selling ANYTHING, or offering 'said customer' a professional service, I wouldn't. Not the kind of fool I want to deal with or have my people deal with. Period.
Stop whining. Get out. Do due diligence.

Pud - The reason for my post was not to whine. I've learned from the school of hard knocks most of my life. Fact, my choice/s, and not a complaint. And generally learned the lessons when I messed up. So, what's your problem with making others aware of potential screwing, hmmmmm ??

I ran my own general contracting business for +25 years. I didn't screw people. Hence no advertising and lots of repeat customers. Not screwing people....Is that the wrong way for fire wood supliers (or any business) to operate ?