Varmebaronen Vedolux 37 Install - Pics

[Clarkbug]

Well, here it is at long last! Pics of the install! Some wiring cleanup and insulation still mandatory, but as of about 10 minutes ago the house is officially heated on wood. Good bye oil man!

And now for some pics!

My idea to mount temp gages, just using a 4x4 J-Box and a blank cover plate with holes in it.

The finished product!

And a very wonderful sight:

 

[Clarkbug]

Ok, so I finally got some time to post these....

I borrowed the IR camera from work to see how my tanks were doing. This was from a complete cold start, the first firing I did after my leaks were fixed. I would say that things are stratifying pretty well Plus it looks cool!

Reflections behind the tanks are from the foil-faced insulation.

 

[Floydian]

I'll drink to that! A toast to your sweet new setup-Cheers!

The Vedolux looks great. Nice choice ;-)

I look forward to hearing more of your learning experience with the new boiler. Keep us posted.

I hope to have my 37 operational in a few weeks(which probably mean 5 or 6)so I can finally retire the '79 VC Vigilant and achieve a far greater level of comfort and efficiency.

Anyway, nice job on making it happen, congrats!

Noah

 

[Gasifier]

WOW! Very nice. Congratulations again. Great idea with the gauges in the junction boxes and hanging from the ceiling. That looks nice. Very easy and quick to see. Hopefully next year I will get my butt in gear and get some temperature sensors and gauges similar to those. Keep us up to date on how things go as you go through the winter. I wish you some cold temperatures so you can see what that thing can do! How are you insulating those storage tanks?

 

[huffdawg]

I luv your gauges , you dont need reading glasses to see them , and the copper work looks great.

 

[Clarkbug]

Thanks for all the compliments everyone!

The gauges are from Sure Electronics on eBay, and I got that idea from jebatty and ewdudley I believe. The mounting was something I came up with trying to figure out a good way to do it on the cheap. Not the most professional install, but it works for what I need it for. I think I need to pull the sensors and re-install with thermal grease, as they are still reading a bit off.

My installer did a nice job on the copper work, I have to say. He and I had a few discussions regarding how to do things, but I know he was really just trying to make sure I got what I wanted.

Insulating the tanks will probably be with some batts around them and on top, and then a wall will be built with the foil faced insulation to seal them in. Im waiting until I can run the system hot under pressure for a few days to look for any leaks or weeping.

Definitely still in the teething stages. I woke up this morning and the house was cold, made me worried. Went to the basement, and the top of the tanks was hot, the load circ was running, but temp gauge on the oil boiler was below 80 degrees. Couldnt figure out why, so I started feeling pipes. Turns out there was air in the lines. I purged about three gallons out of the system, and then fired the circ back up. Heat! I also had my aquastat that enables the system to pull from storage set a little too low. It worked last night before bed because I was still up and running full throttle. Once the fire died down, the storage wasnt hot enough to say so. I also blew my pressure relief sometime during the night, and had about three gallons there. So I guess when I did my fast fill of the system I went a little too far. Im sure Ill pop it again once I get all of my tanks fully charged.

 

[jebatty]

My congratulations also. You have much to be proud of. And those gauges -- right at the top of accessories that are inexpensive, easy to install, and very informative.

 

[jebatty]

As to sensor install, for those surface mounted, I used aluminum hvac tape to stick the sensor to the pipe or other surface, then cable ties around pipes, then insulation. The tape sticks tigt and provides some heat transfer. For installing in a well, I inserted the sensor, and then used 12g bare copper wire to stuff the well tight. Probably better ways, but these ways worked.

 

[Clarkbug]

As to sensor install, for those surface mounted, I used aluminum hvac tape to stick the sensor to the pipe or other surface, then cable ties around pipes, then insulation. The tape sticks tigt and provides some heat transfer. For installing in a well, I inserted the sensor, and then used 12g bare copper wire to stuff the well tight. Probably better ways, but these ways worked.

Thanks Jim. My sensors are currently just placed on the pipe, then wrapped with some rubber-insulation tape that I picked up at the hardware store, and that was wrapped with some gorilla tape. Im getting readings, but they are low. I tried wrapping that further with some pipe-wrap, but I dont know if thats making a difference. Ill pick up some zip ties and see if that helps me out.

I just know that my boiler inlet temps were showing less than 140, but the loading valve clearly showed that I was holding right there. So it just makes me question all of them at this point.

 

[jebatty]

Another thing to keep in mind is to place the sensors a short distance downstream from an L or other fitting that disrupts the water flow. You want as much disruption as possible at the measuring point. If the sensor is placed on a straight piece of pipe and no nearby disrupting point, the hottest water stays in the middle of the pipe and the coolest water next to the interior pipe surface. Friction of the pipe is slowing down the water along the interior pipe surface, holding it there longer, not letting it get replenished by interior pipe water, and letting more heat radiate through the pipe surface, thus that water is cooler. Interior water has less friction, and is better representative of actual water temp.

 

[Clarkbug]

Another thing to keep in mind is to place the sensors a short distance downstream from an L or other fitting that disrupts the water flow. You want as much disruption as possible at the measuring point. If the sensor is placed on a straight piece of pipe and no nearby disrupting point, the hottest water stays in the middle of the pipe and the coolest water next to the interior pipe surface. Friction of the pipe is slowing down the water along the interior pipe surface, holding it there longer, not letting it get replenished by interior pipe water, and letting more heat radiate through the pipe surface, thus that water is cooler. Interior water has less friction, and is better representative of actual water temp.

Good points Jim.

I currently have the sensors for the boiler outlet and inlet on straight pipes right as they come out. Ill move them to after the first elbow and see if that helps.

 

[infinitymike]

Congratulations.
Happy to hear you are up and running.
I see you are just like me...up early playing around with the thing and then posting your info right away. I love it.

I've kinda mellowed out a bit with the whole new toy syndrome but still am obsessed.

Now I will be focused on those gauges and I gotta get me some. Thats OCD for ya!

Lets see some more detailed pics soon.

 

[Clarkbug]

Im actually up early because I am at work today, and will be for most of the day.....

That and the fact that my house was cold....brrrrr!

Ill be playing for quite a while until I can "Trust" this thing. Until I know it works fairly well without too much intervention, I wont rest too easy. Plus I travel a lot for work and I want to make sure my wife can handle it without too much trouble.

My smoke pipe shield seems to be doing its job well, as the surface of it never got over 110 degrees F or so when I was playing with it, I could easily put my hand on it without getting burned, so Im pretty sure there arent any problems there.

Im happy to get pics of anything anyone wants to see, I just dont want to put stuff up that isnt really useful. I have a couple of pretty spiffy ones that Im needing to upload... Keep an eye on that second post, it will change eventually

 

[Sawyer]

As to sensor install, for those surface mounted, I used aluminum hvac tape to stick the sensor to the pipe or other surface, then cable ties around pipes, then insulation. The tape sticks tigt and provides some heat transfer. For installing in a well, I inserted the sensor, and then used 12g bare copper wire to stuff the well tight. Probably better ways, but these ways worked.

Like your wire idea Jim, I was wondering what to do with the sensor for my Tekmar 509, definitely worth a try!

 

[Clarkbug]

Just a follow-up on sensor mounting.

Last night I got home and moved the sensor on my boiler outlet. I put it after the first elbow, instead of before. I used some thermal grease from Radio Shack on the sensor, and then used some 20 or 22 gage wire that I had kicking around to secure it to the pipe. I was able to twist the wire to tighten things nice and snug, and then I put some rubber insulation tape around it. Now boiler leaving temps are much closer to what I was expecting to see. Much thanks!

Anyone have tips for mounting to the surface of the tank? I used gorilla tape and insulation tape, but they are both giving up from the high heat. The aquastat is more important to me, since thats what allows my system to pull from storage.

 

[maple1]

Could they be soldered?

 

[Sawyer]

Just a follow-up on sensor mounting.

Last night I got home and moved the sensor on my boiler outlet. I put it after the first elbow, instead of before. I used some thermal grease from Radio Shack on the sensor, and then used some 20 or 22 gage wire that I had kicking around to secure it to the pipe. I was able to twist the wire to tighten things nice and snug, and then I put some rubber insulation tape around it. Now boiler leaving temps are much closer to what I was expecting to see. Much thanks!

Anyone have tips for mounting to the surface of the tank? I used gorilla tape and insulation tape, but they are both giving up from the high heat. The aquastat is more important to me, since thats what allows my system to pull from storage.

What about silicone?

 

[Clarkbug]

Maple,

I dont think I want to solder the aquastat bulb, since I would end up popping it or messing up the magic that goes on inside of there somehow.

I hadnt considered using a high temp silicone or something like that. Perhaps if I got some of that (might want it for the smoke pipe anyway), stuck the bulb on, and then used tape to hold it while it sets up that would work out OK for me...

 

[maple1]

I guess I was thinking you were looking for a way to fasten surface probes that were just wire ends to your tank or pipes - that's what the solder comment was about, wondering if wires could just be soldered to the tank/pipe surface. No, I don't think I'd want to try to solder a bulb either.

 

[Clarkbug]

You are right, I was talking about two different things, temp sensors and the aquastat bulb. The temp sensors have a little metal cylinder on them, they arent just bare at this point. But I see where you were going, and I appreciate the suggestion!

 

[infinitymike]

The gauges are from Sure Electronics on eBay, and I got that idea from jebatty and ewdudley I believe.

Which gauges did you get? The ME-SP333?

I think they are 12 volt. So I guess I need a transformer?

 

[Clarkbug]

The gauges are from Sure Electronics on eBay, and I got that idea from jebatty and ewdudley I believe.

Which gauges did you get? The ME-SP333?

I think they are 12 volt. So I guess I need a transformer?

I went with the SP-334 model, since its digital. If you look at the 333, the error is something like 3 deg. C at the top end, which is sorta worthless. If you want, you can get the SP-335 and have two sensors on one display, so you could do a single display for in and out of the boiler, for instance....

I just used an old wall wart adapter from a set of computer speakers.

They will take from 8 to 24 volts I think, and Im using a 16v plug. I have a big pile of them from stuff that was getting thrown out.

If you search here in the forums, you can find the thread about using the Sure electronics stuff.

 

[henfruit]

No wells in the tank for the probes?

 

[Clarkbug]

Well thats the thing. They are old expansion tanks, and there are two wells on the very very top of them. One of the wells in each currently has an auto-vent in it. I could put a well in the other one I suppose, but I would worry that it would be grabbing water at the very top of the tank that I couldnt use very well. I guess thats able to be overcome with use of the appropriate setpoint on the aquastat and the differential. For instance I could set it to kick in at 160 or so with a 20 degree differential, which would mean the top would be nice and hot before I start pumping to the house, and then it has a while to fall before it goes back to oil.

Thats why I figured sticking it to the outside of the tank would just make the trial-and-error portion of this a little bit easier. But I didnt think about what I would do the sticking with.

Anyone using an aquastat like this to backup the system have any ideas?

 

[Singed Eyebrows]

Well thats the thing. They are old expansion tanks, and there are two wells on the very very top of them. One of the wells in each currently has an auto-vent in it. I could put a well in the other one I suppose, but I would worry that it would be grabbing water at the very top of the tank that I couldnt use very well. I guess thats able to be overcome with use of the appropriate setpoint on the aquastat and the differential. For instance I could set it to kick in at 160 or so with a 20 degree differential, which would mean the top would be nice and hot before I start pumping to the house, and then it has a while to fall before it goes back to oil.

Thats why I figured sticking it to the outside of the tank would just make the trial-and-error portion of this a little bit easier. But I didnt think about what I would do the sticking with.

Anyone using an aquastat like this to backup the system have any ideas?

I don't think 5 minute JB Weld would let go any time soon. They fix cracked diesel engine blocks with the slow dry version of this stuff, Randy