VC Encore Cat - Behind the Fireback

[JV_Thimble]

Got this stove newly installed in January or February. Removed the fireback to get a look at the catalyst, and this is what I found. I thought everything was working just fine till I saw this. Now I'll get to see how VC is on warranty service, as I'll also email these to my dealer/installer. Besides the obvious, the catalyst is quite bowed and badly cracked.

 

[begreen]

Wow, sorry to hear this. Is the downward force of the bowing what you think is fracturing the refractory assembly?

 

[certified106]

I seem to remember a thread this winter where there was some talk of the first cats that were made for these stoves being slightly to large and causing problems so maybe that's the case on this one. Hopefully someone will remember which thread it was that they were talking about this in. Sorry to hear about the problems though.

 

[Blue Vomit]

I seem to remember a thread this winter where there was some talk of the first cats that were made for these stoves being slightly to large and causing problems so maybe that's the case on this one. Hopefully someone will remember which thread it was that they were talking about this in. Sorry to hear about the problems though.

That was in the newer 2n1's
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/66655/P110/ Page 6
Good luck

 

[JV_Thimble]

Thanks for all the replies. Just hoping I can get this fixed quickly enough for one of those early fall fires.

Not sure on why the catalyst is bowed like that, but I have to believe that this wouldn't have looked right if I'd removed the fireback before the first fire.

Will definitely keep you guys posted on this - maybe I have an unusual case here.

 

[Gark]

Sad to see that. Is the roof of the refractory box whole and in the right position? If not, it looks like something heavy got dropped down the stovepipe collar (with the damper closed) and smashed the refractory? During transport for example. The refractory material in our 2550 is very fragile. Or the refractory was installed AFTER the upper fireback was installed
(Bass ackwards).

 

[JV_Thimble]

Sad to see that. Is the roof of the refractory box whole and in the right position? If not, it looks like something heavy got dropped down the stovepipe collar (with the damper closed) and smashed the refractory? During transport for example. The refractory material in our 2550 is very fragile. Or the refractory was installed AFTER the upper fireback was installed
(Bass ackwards).

I think I'll have to rely on the dealer/installer to answer these. I don't really know what I'd be looking for, as I don't have a reference stove that's set up properly.

 

[begreen]

Thanks for all the replies. Just hoping I can get this fixed quickly enough for one of those early fall fires.

Not sure on why the catalyst is bowed like that, but I have to believe that this wouldn't have looked right if I'd removed the fireback before the first fire.

Will definitely keep you guys posted on this - maybe I have an unusual case here.

It looks like the cat fit was too tight. As it heated up it expanded and had no option but to push outward. When that didn't work, it bowed, shoving out the sides of the refractory.

 

[elmoleaf]

Reference an exploded parts diagram for your stove. It's critical to understand how these parts go together so you'll know if something is amiss during annual maintenance/inspections.
The piece directly in front of the cat is removable to allow insertion/removal of the cat from the refractory chamber. The chamber is an expensive part for something seemingly so simple.
Depending on how badly the sides pushed out, it may be possible to use furnace cement to reattach the displaced parts. I'd try to get them to replace both the cat and the refractory box.
If possible, keep the old box and fix it yourself for use as a spare.

 

[Todd]

Is that the new Encore 2 in 1?

 

[JV_Thimble]

Is that the new Encore 2 in 1?

It's the 2550, which I don't think is the same.

 

[JV_Thimble]

Reference an exploded parts diagram for your stove. It's critical to understand how these parts go together so you'll know if something is amiss during annual maintenance/inspections.
The piece directly in front of the cat is removable to allow insertion/removal of the cat from the refractory chamber. The chamber is an expensive part for something seemingly so simple.
Depending on how badly the sides pushed out, it may be possible to use furnace cement to reattach the displaced parts. I'd try to get them to replace both the cat and the refractory box.
If possible, keep the old box and fix it yourself for use as a spare.

Had a very knowledgeable sweep out yesterday, and he removed that piece in front of the cat. I'll try and post a picture soon, as it's now much easier to see what's happened back there.

And the dealer is filing a warranty claim, so I had to pull out the exploded parts diagram to determine what parts were needed.

Not a bad idea to keep the old part if you can for possible repair. But it's also pretty amazing how fragile this stuff seems to be.

 

[JV_Thimble]

Much more to look at with the bit of refractory that sits in front of the cat taken out.

 

[Todd]

Wow, major sag there. I do remember some other Encore owners that had similar problems with the new steel cats warping but not like that. Looks like VC should have a better can or frame to hold the cat so it doesn't warp. I bet they fixed this with the new 2 in 1.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Much more to look at with the bit of refractory that sits in front of the cat taken out.

That's a shame. Let's hope VC steps up and corrects the issue.

 

[begreen]

That cat had no room to expand with the heat.

 

[JV_Thimble]

That cat had no room to expand with the heat.

That's what it looks like to me. Like maybe the cat was not quite set properly in the slot for it in the refractory. More like jammed in a bit high. Then, some heat, and, voila!

That's my guess, anyway.

 

[jimbom]

Steel melts around 1500 °C. The coefficient of linear expansion of steel is 0.000012 in/in °C. A 12 in long steel combustor would expand ~ 0.22 inches from zero to 1500 °C. This combustor approached melting. Does a magnet stick to this combustor?

It should have been made of stainless steel which melts around the same temperature 1500 °C. Expansion for stainless would be about 0.3 inches for a 1500 °C rise.

1500 °C is about 2700 °F.

 

[raybonz]

Steel melts around 1500 °C. The coefficient of linear expansion of steel is 0.000012 in/in °C. A 12 in long steel combustor would expand ~ 0.22 inches from zero to 1500 °C. This combustor approached melting. Does a magnet stick to this combustor?

It should have been made of stainless steel which melts around the same temperature 1500 °C. Expansion for stainless would be about 0.3 inches for a 1500 °C rise.

1500 °C is about 2700 °F.

Holy cow Einstein that's some serious heat! I ran a cat stove for a long time and never went past 1700 degrees F (maybe once or twice for a very short time with a brand new cat).. Not sure how you get that much unless you're burning nuclear fuel rods lol.. I would think you'd need to inject pure oxygen into a cat to achieve 2700 degrees..

Ray

 

[JV_Thimble]

Steel melts around 1500 °C. The coefficient of linear expansion of steel is 0.000012 in/in °C. A 12 in long steel combustor would expand ~ 0.22 inches from zero to 1500 °C. This combustor approached melting. Does a magnet stick to this combustor?

It should have been made of stainless steel which melts around the same temperature 1500 °C. Expansion for stainless would be about 0.3 inches for a 1500 °C rise.

1500 °C is about 2700 °F.

I love the odd coefficient of expansion units - in/in °C. A mixture of US units and metric.

On the temperature, I never saw operating temps above about 700 F using a stovetop temp gauge and an IR themometer. Manual says not to go over 800, so I paid attention to that. Tried to run the stove generally between 450 and 600, as 450 is what you need to ignite the cat.

A magnet does stick to the cat.

 

[JV_Thimble]

[/quote]

Holy cow Einstein that's some serious heat! I ran a cat stove for a long time and never went past 1700 degrees F (maybe once or twice for a very short time with a brand new cat).. Not sure how you get that much unless you're burning nuclear fuel rods lol.. I would think you'd need to inject pure oxygen into a cat to achieve 2700 degrees..

Ray[/quote]

Agreed, and I don't have a pure oxygen system. I do have an OAK, but that won't quite do it.

 

[raybonz]

Holy cow Einstein that's some serious heat! I ran a cat stove for a long time and never went past 1700 degrees F (maybe once or twice for a very short time with a brand new cat).. Not sure how you get that much unless you're burning nuclear fuel rods lol.. I would think you'd need to inject pure oxygen into a cat to achieve 2700 degrees..

Ray[/quote]

Agreed, and I don't have a pure oxygen system. I do have an OAK, but that won't quite do it. [/quote]

JV do you find an OAK makes a big difference? Some ppl really think they are the way to go.. My house is snug but not airtight..

Ray

 

[jimbom]

Steel melts around 1500 °C. The coefficient of linear expansion of steel is 0.000012 in/in °C. A 12 in long steel combustor would expand ~ 0.22 inches from zero to 1500 °C. This combustor approached melting. Does a magnet stick to this combustor?

It should have been made of stainless steel which melts around the same temperature 1500 °C. Expansion for stainless would be about 0.3 inches for a 1500 °C rise.

1500 °C is about 2700 °F.

I love the odd coefficient of expansion units - in/in °C. A mixture of US units and metric.

...

A magnet does stick to the cat.

Normally, a magnet will not be attracted to stainless. Perhaps your cat was made from steel.

On the units thing: Couldn't decide if the Vermont Castings in the picture was made by the Canadian VC company or the American VC company. So I had to use units from both. To be fair and all that.

 

[JV_Thimble]

Holy cow Einstein that's some serious heat! I ran a cat stove for a long time and never went past 1700 degrees F (maybe once or twice for a very short time with a brand new cat).. Not sure how you get that much unless you're burning nuclear fuel rods lol.. I would think you'd need to inject pure oxygen into a cat to achieve 2700 degrees..

Ray

Agreed, and I don't have a pure oxygen system. I do have an OAK, but that won't quite do it. [/quote]

JV do you find an OAK makes a big difference? Some ppl really think they are the way to go.. My house is snug but not airtight..

Ray[/quote]

I have an old drafty house. Decided to do the OAK 'just because' while I was at having a new liner and stove installed. I like, it but it's probably just an attachment.

 

[JV_Thimble]

Steel melts around 1500 °C. The coefficient of linear expansion of steel is 0.000012 in/in °C. A 12 in long steel combustor would expand ~ 0.22 inches from zero to 1500 °C. This combustor approached melting. Does a magnet stick to this combustor?

It should have been made of stainless steel which melts around the same temperature 1500 °C. Expansion for stainless would be about 0.3 inches for a 1500 °C rise.

1500 °C is about 2700 °F.

I love the odd coefficient of expansion units - in/in °C. A mixture of US units and metric.

...

A magnet does stick to the cat.

Normally, a magnet will not be attracted to stainless. Perhaps your cat was made from steel.

On the units thing: Couldn't decide if the Vermont Castings in the picture was made by the Canadian VC company or the American VC company. So I had to use units from both. To be fair and all that.

I've got to do some reading on why stainless does not attract a magnet. It's one of the thing I didn't like when we got a stainless steel fridge, and my wife loved.

There is mention of Paris, Kentucky on the stove back - but I can't tell if that's where it was made. I suspect they would be using the US units there. Definitely got a kick out of the mixed units, though.