VC encore cat burn times

[-PB-]

Hello all,
Looking for some input... I have been burning my VC encore cat for 3 years now. I'm sure the owners manual is a little fudged when they claim a 12 hour burn time but I am curious to see what other burn times VC encore cat owners are getting. I have NEVER gotten more that 9 hours on an overnight burn and have tried everything. I have about 25 ft of stainless steel chimney liner in my exterior chimney. The stove sits in the fireplace. I never have a draft issue... I do have to be careful she doesn't run away on me. I check the gaskets every year and burn only seasoned white oak, hickory and locust, MC below 20%. When I rake the coals, load up with big thick "overnight" splits, engage the cat at 500 and shut the air down all the way she will give me 9 hours on a good night, the average is more like 8... I'm talking usable coals in the morning. I dont think I have an air leak issue because I burn dry wood and the stove top never gets over 625 with the air closed all the way... if I open the air, look out. I went to my local stove shop and they said that was about average. What are you guys and gals getting and is there anything I can do different?
Thanks all.

 

[jharkin]

I'm only on my second year with the encore so you have more experience than me, but it sounds like the results you are getting are not far off. My first winter after I got the hang of it I could load up at 9:30pm and still have enough coals to relight at 7am. Maybe even 8 but I would need some kindling (no match).

couple thoughts...

When I have the air closed all the way the overnight burn temps usually don't exceed 450 on the griddle once it settles in. If you are seeing 625 either you have much better wood or maybe there is a slight air leak someplace?

When you fill it are you really filling every cubic inch tight? I would use big splits all shoved over to the left, then fill in with chunks on the right to pack it to the walls, then put in small pieces right up to within an inch of the griddle.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Hello all,
Looking for some input... I have been burning my VC encore cat for 3 years now. I'm sure the owners manual is a little fudged when they claim a 12 hour burn time but I am curious to see what other burn times VC encore cat owners are getting. I have NEVER gotten more that 9 hours on an overnight burn and have tried everything. I have about 25 ft of stainless steel chimney liner in my exterior chimney. The stove sits in the fireplace. I never have a draft issue... I do have to be careful she doesn't run away on me. I check the gaskets every year and burn only seasoned white oak, hickory and locust, MC below 20%. When I rake the coals, load up with big thick "overnight" splits, engage the cat at 500 and shut the air down all the way she will give me 9 hours on a good night, the average is more like 8... I'm talking usable coals in the morning. I dont think I have an air leak issue because I burn dry wood and the stove top never gets over 625 with the air closed all the way... if I open the air, look out. I went to my local stove shop and they said that was about average. What are you guys and gals getting and is there anything I can do different?
Thanks all.

Sounds about right. Manufacturer burn times are stretched and pulled and fudged. Some manufacturers stats are more accurate than others. But getting 8-9 hours seems well within the normal range.

I have an intrepid. They claim "up to six hours" for a burn time. The vast majority of my burn times are in the 4 hours range (depending upon splits fitting in correctly).

 

[maxed_out]

+ 1 on the sounds about right. We burned a VCDE Cat for 20 years in all kinds of conditions. 8+- is about it. I switched this year to an Isle Royale, still have the DE. The IR exceeds burn time on the DE. Seems to run longer and need less reloading. Burning in an IR is totally different than the DE. You load this thing once, burn like crazy, top to 600 then back the air down. Once coaling load to the gills and repeat. It seemed like My DE could run slower (lower stovetop temps) with that cat kicked off.

Time will tell if we really use less wood over the season. Definitely dont miss buying/changing/cleaning out the cat.

 

[-PB-]

thanks for the input... A friend of mine just told me I have been making a newbie mistake for years. Before I would light my fire I would always move the ashes around in the firebox making them fall through the grooves in the floor plate into the ashpan, then I would empty the ashes. Apparently a good inch or two of ash will help to insulate the coals making them last longer. Coincidentally Soupy just posted a thread on this very topic . I think it was "Ash as an insulator?" My friend says he never rakes ash through the grooves into the ashpan, he says whatever falls into the ashpan on its own he empties, the rest is insulation. It's good to hear my burn times aren't that far off though. I'm gonna try more ash and see if that gets me anymore time. I'll let you all know if it helps any. I hope more ash can increase others burn times as well and make me feel less of a newbie.

 

[maxed_out]

I always wanted to try really dense dry wood. Locust or stumps might be something to try. My dad swears by stumps but I think getting them out is awful hard on my toys.

 

[darste2]

When you say you turn down the air are you talking the CAT air or primary air?
Dolores

PS: Sorry that I haven't intro'd. I've got a Dutchwest 2651 mid size. Newly installed stainless non flex chimney.
thanks.

 

[wood-engineer]

One thing that has really helped burn times with my Encore has been letting ash build up. I get a lot of air leakage from the ash pan door, and if it can get up to the fire box - it is just about impossible to slow the burn down. By letting the ash build up, it basically seals the fire box from the ash box. I just cleaned it this weekend, it had been over 3 weeks. It reduces the amount of wood you can put in the firebox - but you get much longer burn times. My brother in law lives down the road. He also runs a 2550. He actually puts a steel plate on the bottom of his fire box to accomplish basically the same thing.

Give it a try! Don't stir the ash bed up with a poker - just let it build up. In a few days you'll have a pretty dense layer of ash, and you'll be surprised at how controllable your stove becomes! I've been running this 2550 for about 6 years, and this seems to really work well...

 

[BrowningBAR]

I get a lot of air leakage from the ash pan door

You shouldn't.

 

[wood-engineer]

I know it shouldn't leak, but when they cemented the bottom pan up to the main body (at the factory)- they didn't align it very well. So the seal lip for my ash door is irregular, and is difficult to seal even with a good gasket.

 

[Fsappo]

Back in the day when I burned one in our showroom, we could get 10 hours with good wood from the time I engaged the cat until there were just enough coals to relight. The part about the gaskets are key. The ashpan gasket and the damper gasket are crucial for burn times.

 

[defiant3]

Alittle known secret about Encores are the "bleeder holes". They're hard to find, but there are2 5/16" holes to allow primary air in even when the draft control is closed all the way. Not clear on the reasoning, but there you are. If you're experiencing leakage and can't stop it, plug the bleeders! They are in the ash pan area below the firebox. On 0028's& 2140's open the ash pan door and afew inches back from the opening, the holes are horizontal through the side of the ash pan area. On 2190's and 2550's, they are vertical , one just behind the ash pan door latch NOT actually inside the ash pan area, and the other correspods on the opposite side. Use a piece of gasketing, nut and bolt, dab of cement, whatever. Might give a little more burn time, a little lower stove top temp.

 

[barrettdp]

Alittle known secret about Encores are the "bleeder holes". They're hard to find, but there are2 5/16" holes to allow primary air in even when the draft control is closed all the way. Not clear on the reasoning, but there you are. If you're experiencing leakage and can't stop it, plug the bleeders! They are in the ash pan area below the firebox. On 0028's& 2140's open the ash pan door and afew inches back from the opening, the holes are horizontal through the side of the ash pan area. On 2190's and 2550's, they are vertical , one just behind the ash pan door latch NOT actually inside the ash pan area, and the other correspods on the opposite side. Use a piece of gasketing, nut and bolt, dab of cement, whatever. Might give a little more burn time, a little lower stove top temp.

I believe these are the holes you are talking about, at least on the Defiant. I debated on whether or not to pug them, but instead have just let the ash build up and never empty the pan. Would it be better to just plug them as you say?

 

[Fsappo]

Better off sealing the stove where it should be sealed. Those bleeder holes are there for a reason. I'm sure the local Vermont Castings dealer you bought the stove from can explain.

(Disclaimer, on my Enerzone 3.4 I also had a "bleeder hole" which I covered with metal tape which gave me 2 hours longer burn time and my chimney still stayed very clean, but it is not reccomended to make such modifications)

 

[jharkin]

VC experts on this forum have stated that those holes are there for two reasons:

#1 to let in the minimum air to keep primary combustion going when the main intake is closed
#2 To burn up the coal bed from below

Its recommended that unlike other stoves we NOT keep a deep ash bed in the Encore/Defiant and to clean out the ash pan regularly to maintain this proper airflow. I noticed that the manual even says to stir the coals around to let the ashes drop into the pan at each reload.

~Jeremy

 

[defiant3]

Plug bleeders only if there is leakage you cannot control such as an ash pan door that won't close properly anymore. It's definately a "band-aid" not the kind of thing one would do routinely

 

[Todd]

Alittle known secret about Encores are the "bleeder holes". They're hard to find, but there are2 5/16" holes to allow primary air in even when the draft control is closed all the way. Not clear on the reasoning, but there you are. If you're experiencing leakage and can't stop it, plug the bleeders! They are in the ash pan area below the firebox. On 0028's& 2140's open the ash pan door and afew inches back from the opening, the holes are horizontal through the side of the ash pan area. On 2190's and 2550's, they are vertical , one just behind the ash pan door latch NOT actually inside the ash pan area, and the other correspods on the opposite side. Use a piece of gasketing, nut and bolt, dab of cement, whatever. Might give a little more burn time, a little lower stove top temp.

I believe these are the holes you are talking about, at least on the Defiant. I debated on whether or not to pug them, but instead have just let the ash build up and never empty the pan. Would it be better to just plug them as you say?

Ah yes, my Woodstock Keystone has a small hole in the ash pan housing just like that. I played around with it but found that I could turn the stove down further with the hole open than closed. I can plug mine while the stove is burning and you can see the bottom coals go from red to black. Might be something you VC guys could play with. Maybe just reduce the hole size a bit?

 

[-PB-]

another "bandaid" you can try is to put metal tape across a portion of the primary air door opening in the back of the stove. The door is designed to NOT close all the way continuously letting air in. I have found that I can control the stove better if the airflow is reduced this way using the primary air control lever. Keep in mind that this is after I leak checked many times and could not find anything. I'm think that there is a problem somewhere but it's not anything obvious like gaskets or ash pan. Basically I need someone to look at it but I don't want to pay.

 

[defiant3]

Keep in mind of course that the draft control is thermostatically controlled, so that as the stove heats up , the draft door WILL close all the way. Only on a cold stove should the draft door remain open. Don't know why that is, though come to think of it!

 

[-PB-]

great, another thing I have to check... Thanks alot Graham!

 

[defiant3]

No charge.