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VC non-cat Encore: good burn at low settings?

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by billoetjen, Apr 27, 2006.

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  1. billoetjen

    billoetjen New Member

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    Hi,
    I apologize for crowding the space with this Q, but I'm just about ready to put down $$$$ on a new Encore.
    Can someone let me know from their experience how well this stove (non-cat) works when it's shut way down. I'm talking about after it's been well fired up and going for > 2 hours.
    Pass this Q along to folks you know please and I'll appreciate the help.

    Bill
    :-/

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  2. Rob From Wisconsin

    Rob From Wisconsin Minister of Fire

    Joined:
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    Loc:
    East-Central Wisconsin
    On non-cat stoves, I have found that the chimney draft is
    critical in maintaining a good secondary burn once the
    air controls have been turned-down. A relatively straight,
    internal chimney w/ sufficient height should achieve this.
    Avoid basement installations and/or using an external chimney
    (especially a masonry external), as these handicap your draft.
    All non-cats pretty much operate under the same platform, except
    some may have some small differences (I'm not familiar w/ yours).

    Rob
  3. Towboat

    Towboat New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2006
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    Bill, I have a Encore non-cat and I really think it is a great stove. This has been my first winter using the stove. I have it directly connected to my inside masonry chimney (10 x 12 inch tile flue) approx 36' high, it actually has a little to good draft. I plan on installing a 8inch liner for next winter. The stove burns great. I find it not fussy at all. It is very easy to start. Extremely clean to operate. The Top loading feature is great. I find my stove fires best with the air supply approx half open. Lower than this and the glass will soot up some what but not bad. When draft is set at half or better, stove burns average temp approx 650 degrees. The fire is especially nice when the wood has burnt down and there are many coals, lots of secondary burning going on, really nice to watch. As far as firing on a low burn, I do it and the only draw back is the glass will soot up somewhat but it will burn off when you fire the stove hotter. I will get approx 7 hours of burning time with one load of wood (fill up firebox at 1000 pm and at 0500 am stir up the few glowing coals, add kindling, crack ash pan for a few minutes and your off). I believe once I install a liner the draft will slow down some giving the stove a longer burn overnight. Good luck. Walt
  4. seaken

    seaken Minister of Fire

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    That used to be true. The technique for encouraging secondary and tertiary combustion was pretty much that same in most non-cat stoves sold up until recently. However, Vermont Castings has been selling the Acclaim non-cat for several years and it uses a unique approach. It uses a down-draft technique and it is very effective. The new Encore NC uses an improved version of this technique. Harmon and LOPI also have a verson of this technique. In the Case of the Encore NC it is called the EverBurn system. It utilizes a bypass damper and a refractory secondary combustion chamber. With a good coal bed it reacts very similar to the catalytic VC models and is less susceptible to the fluctuations in internal temperature than the traditional top baffle technique that is more familar.

    We have had very good feedback from some long time users, most of whom were using a catalytic model. The related Dutchwest Cast Non-cat has had similar good feedback. We've had about two and a half years of use in the field and so far all the feedback is positive. I think we will see more of this type of secondary combustion and less catalytic and top baffle designs. But, who knows. All I can say for now is that it looks like a hit.

    Sean
  5. seaken

    seaken Minister of Fire

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    Loc:
    Shokan, NY
    I'm glad you arehaving positive results with your new Encore NC. I would caution you, and everyone else following along, to not use the ash pan door to kindle the fire. Yes, it is effective at firing up the fuel. However, it will damage the bottom grate and probably the front castings and glass. Your warranty will not cover you for this damage since it is considered "abuse". And, if you forget to close the door in time you will end up with a run-away stove really quick.

    Please go out and buy a bellows. Use the front door and he set of bellows to fire the kindling. Leave the ash pan door closed.

    Of course, it's your stove and you can do what you want. I have many customers who use your technique in spite of the manufacturers warnings and our own instructions telling them not to do it. All I can say is that you will damage the stove and that the warranty will not cover you.

    Sean
  6. Towboat

    Towboat New Member

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    Sean, Thanks for the sound advice. Walt
  7. Rob From Wisconsin

    Rob From Wisconsin Minister of Fire

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    Yes!!
    I have read about the "down drafting" stove that Harman markets.
    I wonder if you get significantly longer burns & cleaner burns like you
    would on a catalytic? Anyone w/ any experience on these units??
    They seem to be the latest "craze" in woodburning technology....

    Rob
  8. Tucankenny

    Tucankenny New Member

    Joined:
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    Greetings,

    I'm new to this site and to the wood burning stove community, anyway, I'm looking at two stove's, Morso 2110 and the VC Dutch West Cat. I have a split level house and the fire place is located in the downstairs family room approx. 18 x 18 with an adjacent room is the same size. I'm been reading that the Morso 2110 is a good stove, however, I'm not thrilled with the log size so I'm thinking about a VC Dutch West Cat. I'm been reading that the VC Dutch West Cat has problems with the windows and other things, should I think about the VC Dutch West NC?

    Also, I'm kind of confused with this... the chimmey company that I'm working with says the VC Encore is no longer made! Is that true?

    Kenny
  9. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

    First of all the Moroso is a good stove
    Second point your chimney company is full of what the grass grows green

    VC top seller is the encore cat and non cat models

    I think the chimney seller is concerned about your venting. He is being un truthfull to divert you to another product. Most Encores have an 8" oval outlet which is converted to 8" round. IF the 8" size is a problem, as an option VC makes a 6" flue collar that can be used for 6" liner system.

    Please detail your current flue sizes chimney location interior /exterior verticle rise and what you are planning to do.

    Personally if you are willing to spend a little more, Encore vs Dutch west, I would go with the Encore
  10. Tucankenny

    Tucankenny New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Messages:
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    that was fast... Now I'm pissed.... anyway, here is my fireplace details.

    Hearth - 21" in depth and 14" in height

    Fireplace

    27 1/4" - height
    36 1/2" - wide
    26 " wide in back of the fireplace
    22 " from back of the fireplace to the front.

    The chimney company said that the flue can be neither 6" or 8" size, also, the reason they suggested the Dutch West is because they got it from the dealer at a good cost and they want to off load it to me, however, I would like to know if I'm looking at the wrong stove. I'm new to this and I would like to make a good decision on the type of stove.

    Thanks,
    Kenny
  11. seaken

    seaken Minister of Fire

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    Loc:
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    Well, to be fair, elk really doesn't know why the guy said what he said. Maybe he's just ignorant of the facts.

    Given your fireplace height the Non-cat Dutchwest is out. It's too tall. Here's how some of the stoves mentioned measure up:

    The Dutchwest Non-Cat has rear vent center-of-flue measurements of 27, 27-1/4, 30-1/4

    The Dutchwest Catalytic has rear vent COF measurements of 26-3/4, 27, 30-1/8

    The Morso 2110 has 22" to rear COF. The Morso 7110 has 21-1/2"

    The Encore NC is 23-3/4". The Catalytic Encore is 23-5/8"

    So, the DW NC needs about 30" height, minimum. The Dutchwest Catalytic does support short legs, IF your hearth is of acceptable type. The Cat version will fit with short legs. The Morsos will fit. The Encores, while using an 8" flue, can still use an oval connector and with the proper connection will fit under your lintel.

    I would suggest the Morso 2110 or 7110 given your space, the cost of the stove and the liner. The Encore would work but it will be more money and may be a little oversized. The Dutchwest Catalytic, while priced very good, is not the best stove for a first time wood burner, in my opinion. It can be a good stove but it takes certain amount of dedication to get it to perform to it's potential. The other stoves will be simpler for you as first time wood burner.

    Good luck,
    Sean

    P.S. The DW NC does NOT support short legs.
  12. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

    Exterior walled chimney? verticle length just guess it ? clay flue size?
    Price, model, age of the Dutchwest? Cat or non cat, After that info is supplied we better can give you educated advice

    A dutch west also is a decent stove
  13. Tucankenny

    Tucankenny New Member

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    Sean,

    Thanks for the info... I have one more question though, how much more will the Encore be? (in cast iron black) and will it be an over kill. I just like the Encor VC look better then the Morso 2110, however, I think that the Morso is a better fit by your disciption. I'm bumed that the DW NC will not work, I like the looks. Anyway, thanks for the info.

    Kenny
  14. Tucankenny

    Tucankenny New Member

    Joined:
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    elkimmeg,


    Exterior wall chimney - yes
    verticale length - 28 to 30 ft
    clay flue size - chimney guy said the 6 or 8 " will be fit.

    Price - $ 1,300
    model - large cat
    age - new

    Hope I answered your questions

    Kenny
  15. seaken

    seaken Minister of Fire

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    Loc:
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    I don't know for sure. Stove alone - about $200-$300. Add the increased costs for larger flue, and heat sheilds, etc. maybe $600 total. But, I maintain that the Encore will be more BTU's than the 18 x 18 room can handle. You'll want total of at least 1200 sq. ft. of space for the Encore. Both of the Morso stoves will be better in the less than 1000 sq. ft. space. Hard to tell from here. Can you have a local dealer do a site visit? Sounds like you need some more opinions from local sources. I wouldn't rely too heavily on your chimney guy alone. Get more input from other local professionals.

    Sean

    Does that liner include insulation? What guage? Do you know the difference? Be careful!
  16. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

    There is another VC stove that has the traditional look and even sit lower The Resolute Acclaim uses a 6" flue outlet. I have used it for the past 3 seasons 24/7. Another way to get it done is to cut a new hole in the brick facing and any top flue outlet will work
    You are still using the existing flue passage.
    Seaken or Shane care to comment on that price for the DW he was quoted for?
  17. billoetjen

    billoetjen New Member

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    Hi
    I used a VC Resolute Acclaim every winter (24/7) for 15 years. Liked before having the guts rebuilt; liked it better after.
    When attended to right it burns about clean as gas.
    Right now switching to a VC Encore even though it's more stove than I need.
    Good luck
    Bill
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