VC Vigilant. Best Fire ever last night.

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Kenster

Minister of Fire
Jan 10, 2010
1,705
Texas- West of Houston
I had replaced the griddle gasket several days ago. This was the first fire in a week or so. I had started it Saturday night and kept it going all day Sunday so the coals were really nice. Around 10:30 PM I loaded up the box pretty tight. It didn't take long before the fire was roaring. I shut it totally down and even had the thermostat flap shut. It continued to blaze away and briefly maxed the griddle top thermometer out at 700 before settling down to about 600. At midnight I was up for a minute and added two smallish rounds to the top. When I got up at 0830 the griddle temp was about 425 and there were still several double fits size red hot coals. The entire floor of the stove was full of glowing coals and embers. This was eight and a half hours after I topped it off for the night. I usually will get up in the morning to find nothing but hot ashes and a temp of around 200. I think that new griddle gasket must have done the trick. The only other variable is that I almost totally out of seasoned splits and have been using mostly all 3-4 inch rounds. I guess rounds burn more slowly but they must also burn hotter. The stove was still holding about 350 at noon. I haven't added any more wood since last night but even now, almost 24 hours later there is a very large mound of glowing embers and small hot coals and the surface temp is just over 100 degrees.
We'll see if I can duplicate these results during the next cold snap.
 
Don't ya just love it when it all just works? Right wood, right draft, right timing makes it perfect. Keep the old Vigilant in good shape burning good wood and it will treat you right.
 
One man's heaven is another man's hell.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but those types of burns are exactly what I'm trying to avoid in the very same stove. I see no advantage to having a massive coal bed form in the bottom. If you lived up this way and needed that stove to heat your house the next day, you would probably be surprised what a chore it would be to get it burning right. New wood added will be way above the air inlet holes along the bottom of the fireback and shutting the stove down will only cause the fresh wood to turn to more charcoal. Even in updraft more, it will be a long time before you burn down all those coals to the point where the outgassing new wood is being met with an adequate supply of air to ensure complete combustion. And by then, you will have a massive amount of red hot ashes to deal with.

There have been many posts that I've seen here about how to deal with too many coals, and the advice most get is to stop adding wood continuously to the fire and let it burn down to a small, hot coal bed as part of the burn cycle. I agree with this advice. You added insult to injury by allowing your primary air to close all the way. It will burn that way for a while, but I'll be willing to bet that if you went and checked your stove 3-4 hours after you topped it off with those extra rounds, you'd find it a smoldering, low-temp mess of partially pyrolized wood. The thermostat will have opened the flapper most of the way, but the draft will already have been killed, so the stove will be drawing poorly.

I had the very same thing happen to me yesterday. Why? Because I can't seem to be able to follow my own advice. At the time, it seems like adding those last two splits of hickory will give me that extra bit of heat I want, but again and again I find that it's simply not true. Instead, they further insulate the top from the fire in the box. In horizontal mode, the Vig is burning across the bottom, from left to right. The flame path doesn't go through the entire wood mass and the stove eventually cools down. Sometime about 2-3 hours later it heats up again as the wood at the top starts to become involved. If the stove was shut down too much, the wood at the top will be mostly charcoal. Guess what happened to all those gases that didn't ignite? And now you are stuck with an extremely high source of BTUs on the bottom of your stove, with no effective way to add enough air. So you wake up and recharge the stove and shut it down again and the same problem grows worse until your firebox is half full of coals delivering a very low heat output. In my case, I remedied the problem by removing a large metal can of red hot coals and smothering them with a lid. I will use them in the spring in my forge, or to grill some salmon steaks.

100ºF for a stove is nothing. My sheetrock walls 4' away from my stove get up about 120º, and gypsum holds heat a lot better than does cast iron, pound-for-pound. A stove radiating at 100ºF is only putting out about 20% of the heat energy that a stove at 350º is, and one at 500º is putting out almost twice the heat as a 350º stove is. At temps below 200º, you aren't really heating anything, just keeping the coals from going out. That could take up to a week in those conditions, but more likely, it will never happen.

Anyway, I'm taking BeGreen's sig line to heart and won't go along with the majority here, saving me the time needed to pause and reflect. Both the VC manual and my own personal experience with about 100 full-time days operating the Vigilant this year tell me that is not how the stove is designed to be burned. A true 8 hour burn is the most that can be expected from this stove, at which point most of the charge should be gone and stove temps hovering around 200ºF.

One other thing... rounds don't burn slower and hotter, they just burn slower. Filling your stove up with them is a big reason why you are getting the burns you are. But don't get me wrong, if it works for you down in Texas, great. Everybody has different needs.
 
Battenkiller said:
One man's heaven is another man's hell.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but those types of burns are exactly what I'm trying to avoid in the very same stove. I see no advantage to having a massive coal bed form in the bottom. If you lived up this way and needed that stove to heat your house the next day, you would probably be surprised what a chore it would be to get it burning right. New wood added will be way above the air inlet holes along the bottom of the fireback and shutting the stove down will only cause the fresh wood to turn to more charcoal. Even in updraft more, it will be a long time before you burn down all those coals to the point where the outgassing new wood is being met with an adequate supply of air to ensure complete combustion. And by then, you will have a massive amount of red hot ashes to deal with.

There have been many posts that I've seen here about how to deal with too many coals, and the advice most get is to stop adding wood continuously to the fire and let it burn down to a small, hot coal bed as part of the burn cycle. I agree with this advice. You added insult to injury by allowing your primary air to close all the way. It will burn that way for a while, but I'll be willing to bet that if you went and checked your stove 3-4 hours after you topped it off with those extra rounds, you'd find it a smoldering, low-temp mess of partially pyrolized wood. The thermostat will have opened the flapper most of the way, but the draft will already have been killed, so the stove will be drawing poorly.

I had the very same thing happen to me yesterday. Why? Because I can't seem to be able to follow my own advice. At the time, it seems like adding those last two splits of hickory will give me that extra bit of heat I want, but again and again I find that it's simply not true. Instead, they further insulate the top from the fire in the box. In horizontal mode, the Vig is burning across the bottom, from left to right. The flame path doesn't go through the entire wood mass and the stove eventually cools down. Sometime about 2-3 hours later it heats up again as the wood at the top starts to become involved. If the stove was shut down too much, the wood at the top will be mostly charcoal. Guess what happened to all those gases that didn't ignite? And now you are stuck with an extremely high source of BTUs on the bottom of your stove, with no effective way to add enough air. So you wake up and recharge the stove and shut it down again and the same problem grows worse until your firebox is half full of coals delivering a very low heat output. In my case, I remedied the problem by removing a large metal can of red hot coals and smothering them with a lid. I will use them in the spring in my forge, or to grill some salmon steaks.

100ºF for a stove is nothing. My sheetrock walls 4' away from my stove get up about 120º, and gypsum holds heat a lot better than does cast iron, pound-for-pound. A stove radiating at 100ºF is only putting out about 20% of the heat energy that a stove at 350º is, and one at 500º is putting out almost twice the heat as a 350º stove is. At temps below 200º, you aren't really heating anything, just keeping the coals from going out. That could take up to a week in those conditions, but more likely, it will never happen.

Anyway, I'm taking BeGreen's sig line to heart and won't go along with the majority here, saving me the time needed to pause and reflect. Both the VC manual and my own personal experience with about 100 full-time days operating the Vigilant this year tell me that is not how the stove is designed to be burned. A true 8 hour burn is the most that can be expected from this stove, at which point most of the charge should be gone and stove temps hovering around 200ºF.

One other thing... rounds don't burn slower and hotter, they just burn slower. Filling your stove up with them is a big reason why you are getting the burns you are. But don't get me wrong, if it works for you down in Texas, great. Everybody has different needs.


1. If you have a big bed of coals it is a good indicator that your wood is not as dry as it should be.

2. If you are adding splits when in horizontal mode you need to switch it to vertical, add splits, and let it burn in for a bit. Stove temps will not drop nearly as much (or at all). In 5-10 minutes switch it back to horizontal burn mode.
 
BrowningBAR said:
1. If you have a big bed of coals it is a good indicator that your wood is not as dry as it should be.

2. If you are adding splits when in horizontal mode you need to switch it to vertical, add splits, and let it burn in for a bit. Stove temps will not drop nearly as much (or at all). In 5-10 minutes switch it back to horizontal burn mode.

Well, my wood may not be as dry as it could be (kiln-dried), but it's certainly as dry as it should be. Particularly my cherry, which is too low in MC to get a reading on my multi-meter. I've been watching the weight of a typical split of cherry just for giggles. After dropping from 7lbs 12oz on Dec. 28 down to 5lbs 6oz as of yesterday, I marked the date on the split and put it outside under cover in a sunny lsouth-facing location yesterday afternoon. It picked up a full ounce of water in one day! It'll be interesting to see how much water it picks up outside in the coming weeks.

The hickory definitely passes the resistance test, being up over 1 million ohms with the nails sunk in all the way to the middle. It bursts into spectacular flames the minute it hits the hot coal bed. I don't know what else you would want from your wood. Somebody commented that he thought I was rushing my wood a bit. I thought, well, I'm not making a souffle, I'm drying my wood. What ever works is what works. Extremely dense woods like hickory always makes lots of coals if you're not careful, same as black locust and even oak and rock maple.

Besides, I had a worse problem in the beginning of the season while I was learning the stove. I was burning exclusively three year old mixed hardwood all through the coldest part of December, and adding two year old white ash to the mix.

Yes, I always burn vertical in the stove after an extended burn. A lot longer than 5-10 minutes. I try to get the flue temps to stabilize at about 6-650º on an external flue pipe thermo for at least 15 minutes, but often let it go for up to 30 minutes before filling. Stove top temps can easily exceed 750º during this time. I leave the air open for at least 15 minutes after I first close down the damper. Last night the left front door hit 999º in one spot on my IR. You could clearly see it glowing, even in the light. If my wood is too wet, I'd hate to see what a load of kiln-dried hickory would do in the same circumstances.

The only time I ever have a problem with excessive coaling is when I fail to remove enough ashes from around the air inlets or I overfill the stove with very dense woods and close it down too much/too soon. Otherwise, I think I've already got this thing dialed in pretty good at this point. Yes, unseasoned wood can create a lot of coals, but it not the water that's making the coals. The water is gone from the wood by the time it reaches 212ºF, while the wood doesn't really start to pyrolize in earnest until it gets over 540º and it is basically done by the time in reaches 900º. It's the sluggish, low-temp burns (below 900º) caused by using wet wood at startup that can cause a problem. But regardless, even oven-dried hardwood heated to 900º in the absence of oxygen will turn completely to charcoal. There's not much oxygen up at the top of an overloaded Vigilant when burning in the horizontal mode.
 
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