Vent installed correctly?

[njpitbulllvr]

We are having problems with our stove. It was a through the wall install and was wondering if someone can confirm whether the outside pipe is installed correctly? We just started having the problems after a few months with no issues. Thank you so much.

 

[Xena]

Do you have a pic of the piping inside, and can u
describe the problems you're having. Outside
piping looks fine to me. Have seen a lot of them
set up like that.

 

[imacman]

The vent looks OK, although most people would have the end pointed away from the house. What problems are you having with the stove? For that matter, what make & model of stove are we talking about? What brand pellets are you burning? What settings are you using on it? When was the last time the stove was COMPLETELY cleaned?

BTW, welcome to the forum!

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I believe you have a very common issue, it is called ash in the horizontal portion of the vent. There are other likely issues all related to ash.

Horizontal runs require a rise of 1/4 inch per foot, yours appears to be going down hill from that picture.

This results in two problems extremely large deposits of ash in the run and additional airflow restrictions due to the pipe going downward.

In other words your air flow is getting worse and worse.

How have you been cleaning the stove and vent and how many bags of pellets have you burned since the last vent cleaning?

 

[njpitbulllvr]

The stove is an Englander 55-SHP10. It was purchased a few months ago and was used sporadically until probably about December when we began using it almost daily.

Pellets are Tidy Timbers. I know they do not get much love here but we did try a few different brands (can't remember but they are brands that get love here) and for us they burn well.
As far as completely cleaned, we do all the ash maintenance as suggested by Englander with the exception of the yearly maint which we will do after the season is over.
We usually run the stove from 3/3 to 8/8. Mostly run toward lower settings.

Problems really began Saturday night although we have been getting E2 messages previous to Saturday night.
Saturday night I woke up to the house at 60 degrees (usually 72ish with stove on) and when I checked the stove, it was still on but barely putting out heat. settings were 5/5 and I tried going to a higher setting and it really made no difference.
Last night, the stove was again not blowing hot air like it should. This time it seems like the air was warmer toward the beginning of the blower vents and as you went toward the end it became cooler.

I did email Englander as I could not get though on the phone and their response was to check the bottom 3 settings. I did and as per Englander, the settings are ok and I need to talk to a tech. I will try getting through again tomorrow.

Thank you for the input to make sure our venting is correct. It is really appreciated.
And thank you for the welcome to the board.

Here is the inside vent

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

If that is 3" venting you are also over the recomended EVL for 3" pipe which is more airflow problems.

BTW Welcome to the forum.

Is E2 a vacuum error?

What color is the deposit above the burn pot on the firebox wall?

 

[Topshelf]

One suggestion is to put a 90* elbow on where the "T" is now. You will have to shorten the horizontal run to end up at the same verticle point its at now. That may help you with your downward slant on the horizontal run also. It will help ease the exhaust flow, if that is the real problem? You could add the T in horiz run before the Elbow. The soot will still collect in the drop leg for clean out.

The other thing I see is the vent termination is real close to the window. I dont know what the codes are, but it looks awful close (+/- 18") to me. could end up with CO issues in the wrong winds.

One other thing is to check the exhaust blower to see if its plugged up with lint, dog/cat hair, etc. I get a lot of hair in mine due to the two Brittanies and a cat I have at home.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

What you are calling annual maintenance is really per ton for the most part and the reason that I asked how many bags of pellets you had burned since the last vent cleaning. If it has been a ton or more you should inspect the vent. I'll bet you'll find a lot of ash in it.

 

[njpitbulllvr]

I believe you have a very common issue, it is called ash in the horizontal portion of the vent. There are other likely issues all related to ash.

Horizontal runs require a rise of 1/4 inch per foot, yours appears to be going down hill from that picture.

This results in two problems extremely large deposits of ash in the run and additional airflow restrictions due to the pipe going downward.

In other words your air flow is getting worse and worse.

How have you been cleaning the stove and vent and how many bags of pellets have you burned since the last vent cleaning?

I am a bit confused as to the rise going down hill? I would not know how to rectify that issue.

We have probably burned about 60 bags so far total in the stove.

The stove is scraped daily and ashes removed at least 2 times a week with a shop vac. I also do inspect the burn pot for build up. The baffle plate is removed monthly and the auger also inspected and cleaned at that time.

The vent... have not done any type of cleaning. How do I clean this myself? Shop vac? I did a board search but nothing really descriptive on vent cleaning shows up.

Thank you for your patience. Although I would rather talk about shoes or purses, I am learning to embrace stove ownership.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Ok, I just located my copy of the manual E2 is a failure to light and the list of things to check has three items.

Hmm does loose heat sensor mean a snap disc along the exhaust path doesn't come up to temperature?

When you got that error code did the igniter actually get the pellets lit?

 

[doghouse]

E-2 is "failure to start." If you get the E-2 code after the stove has been running for a while, check your over temp vacuum hose inside the burn chamber. It could be plugged.

 

[njpitbulllvr]

Ok, I just located my copy of the manual E2 is a failure to light and the list of things to check has three items.

Hmm does loose heat sensor mean a snap disc along the exhaust path doesn't come up to temperature?

When you got that error code did the igniter actually get the pellets lit?

I have had to manually light the stove several times but there has also been times where it lights and ends up going out. This is also more recent. I am wondering if the ash in the vent can be contributing to this?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Your horizontal run in the venting appears to be going down ward it must go upward at 1/4 inch per foot of the run. It is possible that the vertical portion of the venting is causing the horizontal run to be deflected downward. The support strap should be loosened and with the tee portion supported by a board jacked up so that run has a rise in it once that is done the support strap need to be retightened.

You may need to strengthen that support system at the house.

At 60 bags you really need to perform all of the tasks marked as annual.

Is the vent 3" vent or is it 4" vent?

 

[imacman]

I am a bit confused as to the rise going down hill? I would not know how to rectify that issue.

We have probably burned about 60 bags so far total in the stove.

The stove is scraped daily and ashes removed at least 2 times a week with a shop vac. I also do inspect the burn pot for build up. The baffle plate is removed monthly and the auger also inspected and cleaned at that time.

The vent... have not done any type of cleaning. How do I clean this myself? Shop vac? I did a board search but nothing really descriptive on vent cleaning shows up.

Thank you for your patience. Although I would rather talk about shoes or purses, I am learning to embrace stove ownership.

What Smokey is talking about is the appearance that your pipe outside is going "downhill", although the dark pic makes it hard to tell for sure. Hot air wants to go "up". A horizontal vent pipe should have a small amount of "up" built in. maybe loosening up whatever clamp is holding the outside portion of the pipe a little, and sliding (pushing) it up will help. If you had this installed by someone else, they should fix it.

Yes, a shop vac is good, but if this is done indoors, a HEPA or drywall filter needs to be used with it. Soot will go right through a regular filter.

60 bags burned is over a ton, and rule of thumb is to do a complete stove cleaning after every ton. Just scraping the burnpot, removing ashes in firebox is good for weekly cleaning, but the stove now needs to be COMPLETELY cleaned.....ash traps opened & cleaned, the combustion blower removed and the fins scraped/wirebrushed, convection blower removed & dust/pet hair, etc vacuumed out & fins brushed, pellets emptied out & hopper vacuumed of all fines, and the exhaust pipe cleanout T opened & the pipe brushed.

And lastly, since you have an outdoor cleanout T, you can do the "leafblower" cleaning after everything else is clean. Take a look at this thread to get an idea what I mean. It gets all those last little pockets of loose ash out from places in the stove you can't see or get to:

www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/45940/

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Vent cleaning is fairly simple. Remove the cap at the bottom of the tee, remove the termination cap at the top of the vent and run a brush through the venting from the top of the vent to the tee. You can get a brush for this purpose at Lowes or Home Depot.

Then you need to do the part from the exhaust blower cavity out to the tee.

Before doing this you need a gasket just in case the one that is there gets ruined taking out the blower's fan assembly.

Remove the blower's fan assembly.

People use all kinds of methods to clean this area, a lint eater inserted from the cavity towards the tee works well.

You then brush the crud out of the termination cap and reattach it.

Reattach the cap to the bottom of the tee.

Then you can vacuum out any of the ash still in the combustion blower cavity and turn your attention to the side going to and through the heat exchanger. Brush and vacuum.

Clean the soot off of the combustion blower fans fins and between the mounting plate and the fan blades, be careful they should not be bent.

Reinstall the blower fan assembly.

Some folks resort to the leaf blower trick once they have completed cleaning the rest of the stove. It will get a lot of what is left, loosened up, but not reached by the vacuum.


Now this is a very rough set of vent cleaning steps.

You can search for leaf blower trick and see some pictures and a description.

I know I probably have a mistake in there somewhere it is a lot easier for me to just do it than list out the steps.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Ok, I just located my copy of the manual E2 is a failure to light and the list of things to check has three items.

Hmm does loose heat sensor mean a snap disc along the exhaust path doesn't come up to temperature?

When you got that error code did the igniter actually get the pellets lit?

I have had to manually light the stove several times but there has also been times where it lights and ends up going out. This is also more recent. I am wondering if the ash in the vent can be contributing to this?

Yes ash can cause this as well however other things can also cause it including an igniter that is failing or out of position.

Ash can get into the act in at least two ways it can block the igniter from getting close enough to lite the pellets and it can stop the heat sensor from seeing the heat from the fire.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Ash is the number one enemy of good air flow, good air flow is required for a pellet stove to do its heating thing.

"0% of pellet stove problems are caused by a TOO clean stove" hossthehermit

 

[njpitbulllvr]

I took the pictures very quickly with my phone so if the outside vent appears crooked, I think it may be the picture. I will double check it in the daylight and see if it needs to be adjusted. I will also have the top portion turned away from the house.

I have a major head cold going on and we are supposed to get some snow here tomorrow night so the stove will probably not get torn apart and cleaned out until at least Wednesday or Thursday. I won't use it again until after the cleanout. It does make sense that this is most likely an ash problem so I will start there.

I really appreciate the advice given here. It has been very helpful and I am glad I did not get through to Englander to find out I should have done the "seasonal" maintenance after burning a pallet. oopsie.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Take it easy and get rid of the cold.

We will see you later on.

 

[njpitbulllvr]

Ash is the number one enemy of good air flow, good air flow is required for a pellet stove to do its heating thing.

"0% of pellet stove problems are caused by a clean stove" hossthehermit

this is a great quote.

i will be back to update. and lurking to learn more. ty again.

 

[imacman]

Remember, a REALLY clean stove, is a happy stove (and the warm owners are too!)

 

[njpitbulllvr]

My boyfriend took the stove apart and cleaned it. There was not much ash to be found. I did not know this but he has been cleaning the vent all along. We did not have any hair build up in the back either. He did not do the leaf blower trick on the vent but did brush and vacuum.

I called Englander and they suggested checking for a vacuum leak and also banging on the firebox with a mallet and revacuuming. Did both, again hardly any ash.

Started stove last night, same lazy burn and same problem with the heat blowing warmer on the left side and cooler on the right. This time, the whole outside of the stove was hotter than it has ever been resulting in my boyfriend burning his hand which is not something we have had a problem with before.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Can you explain exactly how he cleaned the vent?

If the gaskets and vent joints are fine you shouldn't have any vacuum issues per se, however if that vent pipe is going down hill you could have a draft issue due to the restriction in your air flow.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Is the area below the wear plate in the burn pot clean? If it isn't you have a restriction in the air flow as it enters the burn pot.

Also check the OAK for anything haven been pushed into it from the outside.

 

[njpitbulllvr]

Is the area below the wear plate in the burn pot clean? If it isn't you have a restriction in the air flow as it enters the burn pot.

Also check the OAK for anything haven been pushed into it from the outside.

Our neighbor came over yesterday. He has the same stove and similiar outside venting. He took the stove apart with my boyfriend, checked the vents in and out and cannot find any ash blockages. The vertical portion of the outside vent goes straight up and down and is not leaning like my picture shows. We called Englander and they do not know what is causing our problem.

We are going to pay a stove tech to come help us.

I really do appreciate all the suggestions given. Will post the outcome once we have a tech visit us.