I'm hoping someone can help me. Someone is giving us a wood burning stove for free. With the oil prices, this has been a lifesaver for us. After doing some reading I found out it may not be EPA certified. It is from a very good company and it does look like the newer models. What exactly does this mean for me? I have 2 kids in the house and I dont want them breathing in anything dangerous and I'm also all for cleaner air. This stove is call a Vermont Casting Vigilant. Its a top loader. It is a wood stove that comes with a coal insert which we will not be using. Should I pass on this or is it possible even though it's older that it would pass the EPA certification?
Vermont Casting Vigilant not Epa Certified?
- Thread starter JustLooking
- Start date
-
Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.
We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.
We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
- Status
TMonter
Minister of Fire
The EPA certification is for the emissions out of the Chimney, not inside the house. Even older stoves can be good heaters and performers and not damage inside air quality. It all has to do with proper install, maintenance and operating procedures.
Adios Pantalones
Minister of Fire
It does not need to be EPA cert to be safe. EPA cert has to do with burning cleanly and efficiently. In general (yes- I drank the EPA Kool Aid) they produce less smoke, less creosote, and generate more heat from a given amount of wood.
Some places have restrictions on installing non-EPA stoves, so it may be an issue from that standpoint.
Some places have restrictions on installing non-EPA stoves, so it may be an issue from that standpoint.
STOVEGUY11
Feeling the Heat
Check with your local building inspector. They may have their own clearances for install around the stove. Which will be higher than need be. Check around to see if you can find an old owners manual.
It would be a good idea to have the stove looked at closely. Regardless of age you want to be sure that it's in safe burning condition. The stove also probably needs a very thorough interior cleaning. This is not just a superficial vacuuming, it needs to include cleaning out the secondary passages. If you know someone with a good compressor and air nozzle, that is a good way to do this. Then the stove's interior plates, by-pass damper and air controls need to be checked to assert that they are working well and sealing correctly. This is a good time to examine all gaskets on the stove as well. Taking the time to do this checkup before the burning season can make a huge difference in the reliability, safety and quality of burning for this stove. It's a good workhorse and a big stove, but they need a checkup every year to keep them in good working condition.
PS: If you can post some pictures of the stove (front, back and interior shots) we can do a visual examination that may help spot obvious issue if there are any. If you need a copy of the manual, it can be downloaded from Vermont Castings website at:
http://www.vermontcastings.com/catalog/elements/files/Defiant_Vig_Res_Intre_Pre88-0226.pdf
PS: If you can post some pictures of the stove (front, back and interior shots) we can do a visual examination that may help spot obvious issue if there are any. If you need a copy of the manual, it can be downloaded from Vermont Castings website at:
http://www.vermontcastings.com/catalog/elements/files/Defiant_Vig_Res_Intre_Pre88-0226.pdf
I can't believe what a great website this is. I was not expecting such a quick reply. I'm going to keep everything in mind that you have all told me. I'll try to get some pics later so maybe one of you can spot any problems that are there.
Thank You.
Thank You.
It's a good workhorse of a stove. Not as clean burning as modern EPA standards, but if in good condition and run correctly, it works well. Equally as important is the wood supply. Do you have a good supply of dry, seasoned wood? Even the best stove is going to burn poorly with damp or unseasoned wood.
OK So I'm most likely going to need more pics, but here are the ones he gave me. What do you think so far?
STOVEGUY11
Feeling the Heat
It doesn't look to be abused, you may have a solid appliance in that machine. Like the rest said, give it a REAL good look and cleaning. Inspect gaskets and air passages.
I have a VC Vigilant that I have been using for six years. The only difference is mine has glass doors. It is a real workhorse. It easilly heats the bottom half of my ranch house. I clean it out after each burn and with dry wood it may cook you out. You can also cook on top of it using cast iron cookware. If, as Be Green says, it is airtight you are safe. I have a manual if you need any info. Good luck you have a SUPER FIND.
Looks great in those pics. My father has been using the same Vermont Casting Defiant every winter (but not 24/7) for over 30 years w/ no problems and very little upkeep.
Can't beat the price. Plus, it's a beautiful piece of furniture.
Can't beat the price. Plus, it's a beautiful piece of furniture.
So far looking good. It doesn't show signs of abuse or overfiring. It's definitely worth proceeding with. Feel free to keep asking questions and best of luck with the new heater.
Yup, this can be a great site for stoves and advice. Some have it, some do not. Filter.
All of the above info applies well to the Vigilant. Good posts above. The Vigilant and its big bro, Defiant, made Vermont Castings' name for engineering and quality and service and even cult -like following. Later....welllllll.
Gaskets are standard, just remove the old ones ( save for measuring length and diameter), and bring them to a good stove dealer, It's a simple but fussy and messy job to replace all of them: doors, internal damper, pipe exit. Be sure that the grooves are wire brushed clean then apply the "water glass" cement ( some recommend silicone caulking ) in the groove , then press in the replacement gaskets WITHOUT stretching. Get the "high density" gaskets. Do the cast iron plate seams with a tube or can of furnace cement. Use fingers to press the junk into the plate seams. Easy after the first time.
We usually replace gaskets after every other year or when the dollar bill in the opening slides free. Do a search here for more details.
Check the stove carefully with a drop light in a dark room for leaks, and/or use a "smoke pellet" in the stove wioth the chimney blocked for more leakage.
How'd I do B² ? %-P
All of the above info applies well to the Vigilant. Good posts above. The Vigilant and its big bro, Defiant, made Vermont Castings' name for engineering and quality and service and even cult -like following. Later....welllllll.
Gaskets are standard, just remove the old ones ( save for measuring length and diameter), and bring them to a good stove dealer, It's a simple but fussy and messy job to replace all of them: doors, internal damper, pipe exit. Be sure that the grooves are wire brushed clean then apply the "water glass" cement ( some recommend silicone caulking ) in the groove , then press in the replacement gaskets WITHOUT stretching. Get the "high density" gaskets. Do the cast iron plate seams with a tube or can of furnace cement. Use fingers to press the junk into the plate seams. Easy after the first time.
We usually replace gaskets after every other year or when the dollar bill in the opening slides free. Do a search here for more details.
Check the stove carefully with a drop light in a dark room for leaks, and/or use a "smoke pellet" in the stove wioth the chimney blocked for more leakage.
How'd I do B² ? %-P
cmonSTART
Minister of Fire
Wow. Great stove. When I grew up, we heated with a Defiant for many years. Very very good stoves even though they're not EPA certified. They work well. Does the bypass damper close correctly? It should thunk closed and stay there. Some friends of ours bought a Vigilant with a warped bypass damper that won't stay closed.
Nice stove.
Nice stove.
nhimack
New Member
labrador said:
Glad to hear that the VC Vigilant has been a good stove for you. I just bought a 1980 multifuel Vigilant for 400 from my neighbor. He had upgaded to a bigger VC model last year. I will only have to replace a few fire bricks and it's good to go. He had used it for wood but I'm going to use coal, an American heating fuel :D
I think you got a pretty good price on the Vigilant. Mine is dated 1978 and is for wood only and has no bricks in it. I heat a good size area with it so it will do well for you. Good luck , check the gaskets and seams, and let us all know how well it heats. Labrador
It is a good stove for its time. I replaced mine two years ago after rebuilding it and then its efficiency after being rebuilt exposed I had a serious chimney problem which meant I had to get rid of the Vigilant as I had to go to a smaller flue size.
My suggestion would be to check the bottom stove casting from underneath. Mine cracked there and after reading instructions on operation I found out the stove is to be operated with a base of ash always in the bottom of the stove. Mine warped and cracked. It was fairly expensive for the part two years ago and now people are saying the cost of the parts now are much much higher.
This stove requires an 8" flue and if you down the road replace this stove most likely the new stove will require a 6" flue as most EPA stoves are that now.
Take a flashlight in a dark room with the stove and shine it at all inside edges to see if you can see any light from the outside. If you do see light through on the edges then it my need a rebuild of taking it part and then resealing all the edges with refractory cement. It is not a real difficult job and it greatly improves the performance of the stove. If you find just a couple of minor areas of light coming through then you could most likely just use the a caulking tube of refactory cement and force those areas full of new cement.
I can say as I burned for 7+ years with the vigilant it is a good performer but will consume way more wood then a new epa stove will ( a 1/3 more). If getting firewood is no problem it will serve you well. If you are having to pay for wood it will cost you more to run this stove then a newer one from what prices are going for on firewood.
Best luck to you.
My suggestion would be to check the bottom stove casting from underneath. Mine cracked there and after reading instructions on operation I found out the stove is to be operated with a base of ash always in the bottom of the stove. Mine warped and cracked. It was fairly expensive for the part two years ago and now people are saying the cost of the parts now are much much higher.
This stove requires an 8" flue and if you down the road replace this stove most likely the new stove will require a 6" flue as most EPA stoves are that now.
Take a flashlight in a dark room with the stove and shine it at all inside edges to see if you can see any light from the outside. If you do see light through on the edges then it my need a rebuild of taking it part and then resealing all the edges with refractory cement. It is not a real difficult job and it greatly improves the performance of the stove. If you find just a couple of minor areas of light coming through then you could most likely just use the a caulking tube of refactory cement and force those areas full of new cement.
I can say as I burned for 7+ years with the vigilant it is a good performer but will consume way more wood then a new epa stove will ( a 1/3 more). If getting firewood is no problem it will serve you well. If you are having to pay for wood it will cost you more to run this stove then a newer one from what prices are going for on firewood.
Best luck to you.
- Status
Similar threads
