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Vermont Castings Aspen vs Jotul 602

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by neumsky, Dec 29, 2011.

  1. precaud

    precaud Minister of Fire

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    Not a good reason all by itself to buy a stove, IMO.

    I hope you don't employ this sort of negative reasoning in your engineering work. Can't find much? There is LOTS to read:
    http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/search_results/55371f3a1f181a7fa187c6a461d6eaab/

    including my experience with two of them.

    A good way to be ignored is to continue posting arrogant, disrespectful nonsense like that.

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  2. Bub381

    Bub381 Minister of Fire

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    Guys and gals, he wants a box stove so he might as well pick the best 1 we know of.Is the F118 your best pick? I guess this is a better question.
  3. neumsky

    neumsky Minister of Fire

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    Oh Precaud you can dish it out...but you can't take it...that's alright...we don't have to talk anymore...I'd rather talk to someone that can read anyways.
  4. neumsky

    neumsky Minister of Fire

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    Begreen...thank you very much for your help and Bub381...I appreciate the approach...that might be haha.
  5. Bub381

    Bub381 Minister of Fire

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    lol Hey,i like what i like and i got alot of help here getting what i wanted.I changed my mind a few times but i got my stove. ;-)
  6. neumsky

    neumsky Minister of Fire

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    How do you like that Rangeley and has the company Jotul treated you fairly?
  7. VCBurner

    VCBurner Minister of Fire

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    Jeff,
    Some guys on this site know more than the salesperson at a stoveshop. They will tell you whatever to make a sale, often times misleading you into a sale. Why would you spend a ton of money on something that can't perform in today's standards. It's almost like buying a brand new Fiero in 2012!

    Yes those stoves were great in their hayday, but now they are just that. Today they don't compare in terms of performance. I owned a Surdiac that was supposedly 86% efficient, it was built in 1980. In terms of raw heat it was great! But it could not stand a chance in wood comsumption and burn time against modern stoves. Not to mention EPA standards.

    If you just want something to throw wood in and get a bit of heat once in a while, buy a used stove on craigslist for a couple hundred bucks.

    If you want a good heater look for a stove with a good secondary burn system, catalytic or reburn tubes, or even both! VC has the 2n1, which is sort of a new thing Woodstock has a new Progress also with a cat and nc secondary. Obviously, you're not in the hunt for one of those, but at least consider giving a moder design a chance!

    If you are convinced you found what you need, you could be happy with your purchase. Just know, that it does not stand up to many other stoves. Stoves with good secondary burn systems.
  8. precaud

    precaud Minister of Fire

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    You're one of those folks who twists things around 180 degrees and then acts like its real. I'll gladly ignore your further posts. You fully deserve a box stove.
  9. neumsky

    neumsky Minister of Fire

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    The reason I'm partly thinking the way I am is is because if the number one stove is the jotul F602CB...and everybody is claiming it is too small(but probably will suffice most of my needs...most of the time...why not just get it's bigger brother(F118CB for taking care of most of the needs and the occasional situations)? They look to me to be of the same design as I looked at them the other day. Thanx Chris...will keep it in mind. Jeff
  10. neumsky

    neumsky Minister of Fire

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    You know Precaud...I'm sorry we got off on the wrong foot... as I'm sure you are very experienced in this stuff more than I...It's not the first rodeo I've been to. You just did'nt take all my comments into account.
  11. Bub381

    Bub381 Minister of Fire

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    To be truthful,i think you'd like a Castine.The Rangeley seems to be a nice stove but there are a few things i have to change next year like me splitting my wood too big,it's hard to load a stove with big splits.I haven't had a stove before to compare to but i think this stove will be fine. I can load straight in with 18" or E W 20".This stove heats 2000 sq ft.
  12. EatenByLimestone

    EatenByLimestone Minister of Fire

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    I really don't have a dog in this hunt, but...

    I don't think the old 602 can be compared to the new F602. They are different stoves with the same shell. Its a marketing game saying it is the same stove as the past. It's kind of like the space shuttle that debuted in 1981 is the same craft that flew its last flight last year. The F-15 that flew first in 1972 is the same one that flys now. You might be fully happy with it, but it isn't the same beast. It doesn't burn anywhere near the same way as the ones that made the name did. To be fair to yourself you should understand that.

    This is the same with the 118 and F118. They look the same, but are radically different.

    I think Precaud is only trying to state this. Again, you may be fully happy with the way the new ones burn. But don't convince yourself that they are the same stove that your Grandfather had available to him. If you put a new engine in an old muscle car, you are still hampered by the fundamental limitations of the old design. It will still rattle, squeak and have a lousy sound system... but will have the look you want.

    Good luck and I hope you are happy with whichever stove you choose.

    Matt
  13. EatenByLimestone

    EatenByLimestone Minister of Fire

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    Oh, I also noticed that there haven't been any Jotul dealers weighing in. I know there is at least one on the board.

    Matt
  14. VCBurner

    VCBurner Minister of Fire

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    Jeff, FWIW,
    I loved my little Atlanta Stoveworks Box#27. I sold four wood stoves last August, that was one of them. It was a joy to operate from the livingroom fireplace. You just put wood in and let it rip! We used it for two heating seasons, It was hard to sell it. We almost kept it because it fit in so well with my wife's primitive decor. Of course, I understand your attachment to that design. We replaced it with a Dutchwest 2461. That was even harder to see going on the back of someone's pick up truck. I just looked at the Jotul site into the F118's specks and they look impressive. It may be a wood eater though, the old Fishers and Allnighters were great heaters and had long burns but it took a ton of wood to keep them going! Funny thing is Jotul doesn't seem to list EPA emission rates or firebox cubic footage. Another way to keep customers in the dark? If it wasn't for their excellent track record I'd be worried. They leave the dealers in charge of determining what customers really need, which can be a crap shoot. A major reason why the 118 and 602 stoves were so popular was affordability, of course combined with the craftsmanship and quality castings that have made Jotul so popular. They have had designs that were not successful for different reasons. Obviously the 118 was one, as today's model had to be redesigned in order to pass EPA ratings. The exterior is a well liked design, but the guts are just barely enough to pass EPA approval. Nice looking stove, though. Good luck, I'm sure whatever you end up with, you'll love burning wood, if you are anything like a lot of people here ;-)
  15. neumsky

    neumsky Minister of Fire

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    Hey Matt...thanx for the input...Why do you think the dealers are not chiming in? They must all be hung over haha. Happy New Year to ya'll.
  16. EatenByLimestone

    EatenByLimestone Minister of Fire

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    I don't know why they haven't said a thing. I just find it interesting.

    I like the looks of a box stove also. I had to pull out an old pot belly from the cabin. I was looking at the Aspen and company and finally ended up deciding to use the small Century I have. I'll be working on the chimney this year.

    Matt
  17. neumsky

    neumsky Minister of Fire

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    @ VCBurner...It is difficult to see how to pick a stove out...particularily when ya'll keep buying other stoves...you'd think besides the fact something is cheap is the reason why something is bought...you'd think we could figure out today which is the number one stove purchased...or at least one of the top 5 or something. So you miss the Dutchwest cat???
  18. VCBurner

    VCBurner Minister of Fire

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    Yes, I miss my Dutchwest, dearly! Even though my Windsor could have tons of heat pumping out of it with the touch of a button! Crazy,right?
    My first stove was the Box#27, non airtight, nothing to control but the ash pan lid, which served as an air intake of sorts. A friend of mine gave me that one. After a 6 day power outage I decided to get something a little more efficient that could heat the entire house. I bought Surdiac Gotha 513 for $80 on craigslist, it heated my house for the better part of two heating seasons. It was thermostatically controlled and was a huge seller in the 70's and 80's. You coud just fill it and set the thermostat, which would control the air intake, so operation was easy, but fires were short. It was also a coal stove, so if we ever ran out of wood, we could grab some bags of coal and run it for up to 24 hours on one load. Coal was not my cup of tea though.
    I started heating the house strickly with wood after seeing how much money I could save. The oil man would come to the neighbor's house and I'd smile knowing how expensive those monthly visits were! I even convinced the next door neighbor to supplement his heat after he came into my house and saw how warm he could be in the winter! He ended up with a pellet burner insert in his fireplace and his furnace was pretty much off after that day! My journey was a bit more complicated. I had started to look for a used modern EPA rated stove that was capable of an overnight burn and was a wood saver that could heat my house in the coldest of nights by itself. I had two stoves at that point, one in the basement and the other in the livingroom fireplace. I went through 6.5-7 cords the year before I bought my Dutchwest. That was cut in half the following season. I found it used, newly reconditioned for$600. It was just like new, every seam recemented, new paint and gaskets, looked just like the ones at the stoveshop. The cat was used but had a couple seasons left on it. The thing was heavy, 436 pounds of double walled cast iron, built like a tank. No briddle refractory or ceramic baffles that could break while loading. The only refractory part is housed inside the secondary burn chaimber where no log could reach it on top of the fire box, hidden by a cast iron baffle that is a very unique design. A time tested design that has remained the same since 1993. It has had one of the lowest emmission ratings on the market. Still today.
    I agree it is difficult choosing a stove. I had a hard time selecting one, or four...
    The truth is I fell in love with wood stoves...LOL...my wife thinks I'm crazy...obsessed with stoves...like many of us here are. But when we moved, we ended up with hundreds of dollars and a brand new washer/dryer set wort $2000 in the new house, as a result of my stove sales. I spent a fraction of the money that we made on the stoves. It is always fun testing out a new stove, my best one was the Dutchwest. True there are others that would do the same. Some may even be better. But Dutchwest cat stoves are still some of the best bang for your buck in cast iron EPA rated. Low emmissions, low maintenance cost, low wood consumption, controlable heat and low burn capability.
  19. nola mike

    nola mike Feeling the Heat

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    My F602 n heats my 2k sqft house just fine. Small firebox means frequent (every 2 hours at least) reloads. A bit harder to use than the old 602, but I'm managing to get good great output out of it, and it burns much cleaner. I like the window a lot too.
  20. neumsky

    neumsky Minister of Fire

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    Your not a salesman are you Chris??? haha... Ok...now that's the stuff I wanna hear. Would you even consider going back to the DW cat? Now that we've beat the Jotul F118CB to death and I still will not count that out...is there a non cat cast iron stove out there right now that's not having issues with their reburn system as the everburn is? And thanx to nola Mike above...that stove is still a serious contender to me. I also admit that when I pull up info on the DW there is'nt alot of info on it either??? I'm going to stove & fireplace reviews on here.
  21. certified106

    certified106 Minister of Fire

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    Have you looked at the PE True North? It has box stove styling with secondary combustion. I believe one of the members (Cowboy Billy) just bought one and seemed to like it a lot. I know it is larger than what you where interested in but you can run smaller loads in this stove and still obtain the same burn time as a smaller stove. Here is the link to the website http://www.pacificenergy.net/truenorth/tn19.php
  22. neumsky

    neumsky Minister of Fire

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    Yeah...certified...it's a pretty good size stove... a dealer here in OKC carrys these but will not be open until the 3rd so will try & go & see them on the 4th... I've heard good things about PE. But nothing beats that look of a 118 haha. Am hearing that a non cat burns less wood than a cat model???
  23. certified106

    certified106 Minister of Fire

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    Yeah the 118 is a cool looking stove. In all honesty the cat vs non cat is like beating a dead horse since most of the EPA approved stoves will burn within 5-10% efficiency of each other when being run correctly. It would be really hard to tell the difference in efficiency based on how much wood you burn as it is all subjective and depends on the moisture content and how long you let the wood catch etc......The only real difference is the cat lets you burn slightly slower than the non cat on some stoves. I haven't noticed much difference in my burn times between my old Dutchwest and my T6. The only difference I have noticed is the T6 does peak the temp slightly higher in the middle of the load but we are only talking 2-3° higher than the Dutchwest would have and for my house it is actually helping keep the upstairs temps up more than in the years past so it is a welcome change.
  24. neumsky

    neumsky Minister of Fire

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    So Certified...you've had good luck with the Dutchwests??? And are these the cat versions???
  25. certified106

    certified106 Minister of Fire

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    I have been around Dutchwest wood stoves since I was old enough to remember.....My parents have always had at least one Dutchwest (and at times 2-3) which I cared for while living at home and then I had one in my house for roughly 6 years. All of the Dutchwest stoves we have had were the cat stoves and I would steer a wide berth around a non cat Dutchwest as they are plagued with problems and expensive parts. If you are looking for an entry level cat stove the Dutchwest is the best bang for the buck out there in my opinion. Ours have been extremely reliable and we have never had a problem with them.

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