Viesmann

[Eric Johnson]

I've heard too that Orlan manufacturs equipment for a major German boiler mfg. and Viessman sounds right. I also noticed the other day that the blowers on my EKO 60 are made in Germany, which surprised me.

This discussion is way over my head, but could you modulate a wood gasifier by changing the size of the nozzle openings, like what some of us have done with a firebrick over one of the nozzles? Maybe some sliding ceramic valve activated by a bimetal device or motor?

I think Zenon knows what he's talking about, at least where wood gasification boilers are concerned.

 

[Bob Rohr]

As I alluded too above, Zenon may very well be correct. Wouldn't surprise me a bit. Viessmann looks for low cost manufacturing just like any other manufacturer.

Codes and listings to sell here frustrate the heck out of all the Euro guys because their stuff already meets a much tougher standard than UL or ASME. The German TUV rating is the highest bar there is in heating equipment from what I've learned.

TUV does have a branch here in the USofA. Salem, NH as I recall. It would be nice to see that standard gain acceptence.

hr

 

[heaterman]

I have a feeling that Master of Sparks is I guy I know pretty well but it's not me. I'm just the heaterman.

HR.........that you Hot Rod?

 

[Bartman]

Instead of varying nozzle size, you would probably want to vary the air at the fan where temps would be lower and easier to control.

 

[Eric Johnson]

I have a feeling that Master of Sparks is I guy I know pretty well but it's not me. I'm just the heaterman.

HR.........that you Hot Rod?

That's what I think. Very few people, (besides you, heaterman), are that knowledgeable and helpful when it comes to heating questions and alternative energy.

 

[brad068]

I've heard too that Orlan manufacturs equipment for a major German boiler mfg. and Viessman sounds right. I also noticed the other day that the blowers on my EKO 60 are made in Germany, which surprised me.

This discussion is way over my head, but could you modulate a wood gasifier by changing the size of the nozzle openings, like what some of us have done with a firebrick over one of the nozzles? Maybe some sliding ceramic valve activated by a bimetal device or motor?

I think Zenon knows what he's talking about, at least where wood gasification boilers are concerned.

I think Zenon is right too. I heard that over in Europe before the wall fell that the eastern European countries copied alot of western technology. How can you file a patent infringement against rebel countries backed by the Soviet Union. When the USSR and wall fell that western companies purchased these companies because they were already copying and they could get their same products manufactured for alot cheaper. Easier to purchase and employ than try to compete against the same product at half the price. I think this is what is happening between Japan and China or what has happened between USA and China for that matter. The more intricate parts, fans, switches, controllers ,etc. are still going to be German made and the lost cost labor can do the "bull" work; welding, forming, assembling, painting, etc.

My two cents

 

[Eric Johnson]

I think the Poles have a long tradition of quality manufacturing, as did the East Germans. I'm thinking about the Polish shipyards or the nice East German lathes and milling machines I've seen at manufacturing plants in Finland. Maybe all that Point Special beer I drank in my misspent youth softened me up to the whole Polish point of view. But I agree with your basic point--labor is a lot cheaper in the old Soviet Bloc countries, and if the mfg. quality is comparable, that's a good way to cut costs.

I'd like to know who came up with the basic Euro downdraft gasifier design. Tarm has been marketing it in this country for decades, but did they invent it, or was it that professor up in Maine who invented the JetStream boiler? They're deceptively simple, but as nofossil pointed out in a recent thread, there's a lot of pretty fancy engineering that went into the basic design.

And did Fred Seton invent the Seton/Greenfire/Adobe/Black Bear/et. al.-style refractory gasifier?

 

[Buck1200]

Instead of varying nozzle size, you would probably want to vary the air at the fan where temps would be lower and easier to control.

I think this is how the current state of the art gassification boilers in Europe operate (KWB, ETA, etc.). There is a main, variable speed draft inducer fan in the flue, and servo motor driven air ports independently controlling both primary and secondary air flow.

If I have this correct: primary air will regulate the rate at which volatile hydrocarbons are released from the wood- this would be the throttle- where secondary air simply controls the quality and cleanliness of the burn closed loop to an oxygen sensor and flue gas temperature sensor. Flue temperature would be the other 'throttle'- they seem to control to a specific flue gas temperature which I presume is how they can claim 90-92% efficiencies. I guess that's total heat transfer efficiency.

 

[Eric Johnson]

Welcome to the Boiler Room, buck. Northeast Kingdom?

 

[Buck1200]

On the border. I'm just north of Stowe.

No boiler yet, just an epa Hearthstone, an oil guzzling furnace, and aspirations of heating granduer.

 

[Eric Johnson]

Well, you came to the right place.

 

[EForest]

And did Fred Seton invent the Seton/Greenfire/Adobe/Black Bear/et. al.-style refractory gasifier?

if you ask Fred the answer is YES!!
He started building his boiler 20+ years ago.
The rest of them are copycats, some better than others.
Fred won't elaberate beyond that.... unlessss you ask.

 

[wdc1160]

Some interesting quotes about the viesmann

Modulating output between 50 to 100 percent
12 hr guarnteed between recharging
Oxygen is removed from combusion chamber to regulate oxydation
effciency up to 92%

 

[Grover59]

And did Fred Seton invent the Seton/Greenfire/Adobe/Black Bear/et. al.-style refractory gasifier?

if you ask Fred the answer is YES!!
He started building his boiler 20+ years ago.
The rest of them are copycats, some better than others.
Fred won't elaberate beyond that.... unlessss you ask.

The Black Bear is quite different in that it is a down draft cumbustion type very much like a Tarm or EKO, instead it uses a water tube hx instead of fire tube.
The Fred Seton , Greenwood are not down draft. and if I am not mistaken do not use forced combustion air.

Really a Big difference

Steve

 

[Eric Johnson]

You're right--I remember that from the diagram on the website before they took it down. And I don't believe the Seton or the Greenwood uses a blower, either.

But the Black Bear doesn't have a nozzle like the EKO, does it? Just one combustion chamber?

 

[Grover59]

You're right--I remember that from the diagram on the website before they took it down. And I don't believe the Seton or the Greenwood uses a blower, either.

But the Black Bear doesn't have a nozzle like the EKO, does it? Just one combustion chamber?

Yes that is right the Black Bear has 3 bottom bricks of refractory giving 3 slots about 1 inch each and are about 16" wide, the hot gases pass down through the hot coals and out of these slots, and are mixed with the new hot secondary air. So I guess the Black Bear has like 3 nozzles, they do get plugged at times and this is one of the problems with this design, they are easy to clean out but sometimes you may be running with only one or two going. The guy that designed this boiler has come up with a new design for the bottom bricks I have a set but I have not put them in yet, for those that have they say that they are a good improvement over the old, they plug very little. One thing that the Black Bear boiler has in common with the Seton is the hx, it is a water tube design but in reverse, it starts at the front bottom and goes to the back top where the flue gases are sent to the chimney. The Seton starts at the top front and goes down the back to the bottom where the flue gases go to the chimney. The Seton boiler the flue pipe attaches to the bottom of the boiler and the Black Bear is on the top.

Steve

 

[PARCO]

Yes Viessmann is around and in use. I live and work in the Northeast Kingdom OF Vermont. I have worked in the mechanical and plumbing trades for 28 years, and for my money, their products are the best you can get. I have A Viessmann Vitola oil fired boiler (nonmodulating) in my own house, and droped my fuel compstumption by almost 40%. As for the modulating units you were talking about, the Vitoden wall mount boiler comes in either LP or Natural Gas options, and is my first choice when installing in a new home with gas. You can check them out @ www.viessmann-us.com. Good luck

 

[ISeeDeadBTUs]

I also have the Vitola, but what we are talking about here is the Vitolig wood burner. That, I don't believe, you have ever seen in the US.

Anyway, for those not convinced about the quality of German engineering, I give you the attached axample

 

[Eric Johnson]

Welcome to the Boiler Room, PARCO. I love the Northeast Kingdom. A friend of mine claims to be the King, but I think he's kidding.

 

[wdc1160]

Thanks PARCO,

I actually think I am going with the vitolig 150. It puts out 25KW and will hopefully be supported more in the US soon. In indianapolis they have a viesmann office that vowed they would help me if I needed parts, but mostly I am going to rely on the german engineering thing
deadbtu is talking about. (I think)

 

[Buck1200]

If I may ask- are they importing it for you specifically or are you arranging that yourself?

Also, the german Viessman website lists product offerings of 100, 200, and 300 series boilers. I know the 200 & 300 are rebadged Windhager units but I'm not sure about the 100. What does the 150 look like?

 

[Como]

http://www.viessmann.lt/web/lithuania/lt_publish.nsf/Content/Vitolig150-Produktschnitt_lithuanian

Lots of pictures if you google it

 

[Eric Johnson]

Looks a lot like an EKO to me. Didn't somebody say that Orlan (EKO) manufactures that boiler for Viesmann? If so, I'd say they also supplied the design.

 

[Buck1200]

Yes, I agree- it looks very much like an EKO. All of the hits were of eastern european persuasion, as well.

 

[wdc1160]

I got access from an electic engineer I work with. He is from CZ and has a relative who is a dealer in CZ. Sold it for the same price as EKO(including ship). And, nearly everthing on it seems very EKOish.

You got any pictures of czech chicks deadbtu???

Yah, someone mentioned that zenon said they manufacture them all in the same plants.
Viessmann in Indy told me they would stand by it. And, they expect to be selling them in the US someday.

I rolled the dice