Vigas vs Innova or ?

[OldStoneHouse]

Hi everyone,

I've been talking about getting a gasser and I think soon will be in a position to do so, hopefully later this year or early next. I do have a couple of cords of wood dry already and plan to get more soon.

Wondering what you think about the Vigas. I'm in Ontario and it's the easiest (and cheapest) to obtain and there is a dealer close by. The Tarm Solo Innova would be my preference but it's a bit harder to get and more expensive. The reason I would prefer the Innova is the simplicity of the controls and my expectation that repairs down the road would be simple since it's not computerized. Am I crazy about that? I want this boiler to last 20 years and not be bothered with controls that are computerized (who uses a 20 year old PC now?) and having to hack something together because the board has cooked.

Another thing is that I'm going to put this in the basement of the house so I don't want smoke issues - I believe the Tarm is okay out of the box but the Vigas requires a draft fan for those situations ($480 extra). The chimney is 30' high and does draw quite well, so maybe the Vigas would be okay without but the Youtube videos show quite a bit of smoke.

Anything else I should be looking at? The Biasi Pirowood is obtainable too, but it seems to be really pricey. Anyone using it?

Thanks for your thoughts,

Brad

 

[stee6043]

Your concern above about controls is one I'd certainly share if I were in your position. Fortunately for me the newer mid-level boilers were not around when I had to make my decision on a boiler. Even if they were I beleive my top to choices (Tarm and EKO) would still stand today. There are other boilers I'd consider if I had the money or space but for my basement install these were the two I settled on. If I were in your shoes I'd personally go with the Tarm. Just my two cents, however.

 

[OldStoneHouse]

Thanks stee6043. How is your EKO for smoke when the door is opened? I believe the same dealer who has the Vigas can get those too now that I think of it. I actually just got a bit more information and it does seem like the Vigas would be considerably cheaper than the Tarm, around $2000 likely once taxes are shipping are taken into account.

 

[stee6043]

Thanks stee6043. How is your EKO for smoke when the door is opened? I believe the same dealer who has the Vigas can get those too now that I think of it. I actually just got a bit more information and it does seem like the Vigas would be considerably cheaper than the Tarm, around $2000 likely once taxes are shipping are taken into account.

The smoke out the door issue is a well (very well) documented discussion here on hearth.com. Any boiler is going to smoke out the front door if you try to load it mid-burn. Yes, the location of the flue connection to the boiler will have some impact on how much but there is still no getting around the fact that the boiler door is a great place for smoke to exit if it really wants to.

The easy answer - if you load your boiler when you're supposed to (when it's down to coals) you'll get very little, if any smoke, out the loading door during loading. Load your boiler any other time and you're likely to get a face full of smoke.

I typically throw in just enough wood to run my boiler out when I'm ready to reload. 80+% of my reloads are smoke free with no outside help needed. For the 20% of my reloads that are not "coals only" reloads I have an 8" blower with a hose that I use to exhaust the smoke out of my boiler room to outside air. My primary purpose of this blower setup was to suck all of the ash dust out when I clean the lower chamber. But it turns out it works great for the smoke too (when needed).

Smokey reloads is an issue that can be easily addressed through procedures as well as some inexpensive extra gear if you absolutely want to be 100% smoke free (like I did). I wouldn't let it impact your decision on the boiler...

 

[hobbyheater]

Wondering what you think about the Vigas. I'm in Ontario and it's the easiest (and cheapest) to obtain and there is a dealer close by.


Thanks for your thoughts,

Brad

http://www.ahona.com/Vigas/Vigas Manual Feb 2010.pdf Having operated a gasification boiler for 30 years one of the features I like about the Vigas boiler is the secondary burn nozzel , it is easy to change and also would not be hard to make. Section 14.3 of the Vigas manual shows this nozzel.

The longevity of our Jetstream has been aided by the fact , when the nozzel wears out , that is all you have to change !

 

[maple1]

Sounds like we're in about the same situation. Same country, looking for a simple gassifier, and with a big chimney. I think I've made my choice, but sending a PM...

 

[kopeck]

I've seen the Vigas and I own a Solo Innova so I guess you know where my vote is going to go.

As far as smoke goes, it's pretty much a none issue on the Solo Innova. Yeah, if you open the door quickly with a smokey firebox a little will escape but that's it, the rest get pulled right back out the top. I've never smoked up my basement, the worst I had to deal with was a little smell.

Now I'm not discounting the Vigas, it seems like a nice unit. One of the biggest factors for me was there is an established reseller with in an hour of me and the importer is a few hours away. It was really nice having someone to ask questions to when I ran into a few snags and I did use both parties. The Vigas didn't have that, it also didn't hurt that the Tarm name has been around for a long time now.

I make my living in the Hi-Tech world but I like the simplicity of the Innova as well. Yeah, I had to set it to my wood but after that I never touched the dials. Light, load, repeat.

K

 

[OldStoneHouse]

Kopeck,

Interesting, I'm in hi-tech too which is one of the reasons that I like the Innova so much. I'm not sure I'll be able to justify the cost difference though - I'd be willing to take my chances on the board and having to replace/retrofit later for $2K - the Innova would also be a smaller unit 30KW and the Vigas a 40KW. The 40 would allow me to heat the storage faster I gather which would be good right?

I wonder if TarmUSA ever sell demonstrators...that would be a nice possibility.

 

[henfruit]

kopeck,how long ago did you buy you boiler? I Mark from Ahona is in NY and answers his cell 7 days a week almost 24/7

 

[AroostookDave]

Have had a Tarm Innova 50 since last September, burned no oil since. I use an 820 gallon water tank, storage is a must with the Innova. It has been a simple to operate boiler.
The only time I have ever gotten smoke is a couple of times when I opened the firebox door after the induction fan shut off temporarily due to the water temp having reached 212 degrees. This automatically shuts the fan off until the temp goes down a bit. If you pay attention to fan sound this doesn't need to happen.
With this boiler you get the fire going, load it up, and maybe add a few pieces later if you want to achieve a certain temperature. I try for temp near 180.

 

[OldStoneHouse]

It sounds like the Innova is a great machine. I'll do some research to see about getting it across the border because that seems to be another major cost.

I should mention that I've also been considering a pellet boiler. My wife would prefer that actually and part of me might too. There is an excellent dealer just minutes away who has one of the Harman's operating and it looks great.

 

[flyingcow]

Have had a Tarm Innova 50 since last September, burned no oil since. I use an 820 gallon water tank, storage is a must with the Innova. It has been a simple to operate boiler.
The only time I have ever gotten smoke is a couple of times when I opened the firebox door after the induction fan shut off temporarily due to the water temp having reached 212 degrees. This automatically shuts the fan off until the temp goes down a bit. If you pay attention to fan sound this doesn't need to happen.
With this boiler you get the fire going, load it up, and maybe add a few pieces later if you want to achieve a certain temperature. I try for temp near 180.

aroostookdave, if I need to reload the boiler I hit the button that will run the fan for only 2 minutes. Takes care of the smoke. also, i do reload my boiler before it goes to coals, very little to no smoke roll out. As pointed out above, just crack the door for a second or two and the design of the unit sucks all the smoke back.

But I am intrigued by the Vigas. i hope to get a peek at one soon.

 

[kopeck]

kopeck,how long ago did you buy you boiler? I Mark from Ahona is in NY and answers his cell 7 days a week almost 24/7

I think we talked about this before. I was shopping at the time Mark was starting to move from the EKOs to the Vigas. The only local reseller had fly by night written all over him (which turned out to be correct from what I hear), that didn't help the situation.

ReVision has been around for a while and Tarm Biomass longer then them. It was nice knowing that 10 years down the road I would most likely have someone to call if I needed parts. Not saying that's not going to be the case with you folks, I really do hope you do well, I think the market can use a few more good options.

K

 

[JP11]

If you like the dealer... Buy the Vigas.

Having a good dealer who is close and that you trust is big. After that... it's a Ford vs. Chevy debate.

Dry wood! All you can pile up ahead of time. This is much more important than what brand boiler you get. Read a lot on here, there's lots of info.

Good Luck!

JP

 

[jebatty]

Smoke issues can be reduced by insuring adequate boiler makeup air. Outside air also is a factor. The colder it is outside, the better the chimney draft, in general. Dealing with potential draft issues will be very important, regardless of the boiler. I have the Tarm Solo 40, simple, efficient, easy, and no regrets. Just finishing my 5th heating season with the Tarm.

 

[hobbyheater]

I should mention that I've also been considering a pellet boiler. My wife would prefer that actually and part of me might too.

When I was a lot younger I would go out, buck, split by hand and load 5 cords on the flatdeck truck pictured below! Now with a good wood splitter, I feel it's an accomplishment to get a load into the Toyota pickup. The expense for chainsaws and splitter can add up. For me, the firewood gathering experience is something I enjoy. If the firewood side is going to become an onerous experience, a pellet boiler may be a wise choice.

 

[OldStoneHouse]

Thanks hobbyheater - that's good advice. It would make a difference if I had enough land to cut my own wood but since I would be buying it, pellets are considerably less work...! Nice rig you've got!