1. Welcome Hearth.com Guests and Visitors - Please enjoy our forums!
    Hearth.com GOLD Sponsors who help bring the site content to you:
    Hearthstone Soapstone and Cast-Iron stoves( Wood, Gas or Pellet Stoves and Inserts)
    Caluwe - Passion for Fire and Water ( Pellet and Wood Hydronic and Space Heating)

Want to leave NYS in 2 years. Taxes are crazy!

Post in 'DIY and General non-hearth advice' started by charly, Oct 15, 2012.

  1. jebatty

    jebatty Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2008
    Messages:
    4,412
    Loc:
    Northern MN
    I understand your pain and your complaint. My taxes are not low either. But aren't complaints about high taxes at least a little like complaints that "it's too hot"? I think that citizens need to educate themselves about the underlying facts related to high taxes and then make a decision as to what has to change, or what has to go, or what's not needed -- long term, not short term -- and then doing it.

    Just cutting taxes is something like using a rag to wipe away sweat. It doesn't cure the heat. Something needs to be done and that something is more than a mantra. Whenever someone tells me that taxes are too high, I ask them to name a program from which they benefit substantially, and then I ask how much of that are they willing to give up to lower taxes. The answer is almost always the same, "nothing." Instead, someone else has the "unfair" benefit and that someone else has to give up their benefit. Might that be a root of the problem?

    Even with the high taxes, most of us are much better off than people in most other parts of the world. And might that not be part of the problem too? How far and for how much have our wants replaced our needs? Few would disagree that we need solid education for our children -- they are our future. Children are incredibly expensive. All children are extremely valuable. And the list of truly valuable things is quite large. Valuable things are expensive. Perhaps smaller, less expensive cars; or smaller, less expensive houses; or fewer, less nutritious processed foods; or something less that the most expensive, life-saving procedure that prolongs life for a few weeks before the inevitable -- perhaps any or all of these and more is what needs to change so we can truly afford the things that are important.

    Helpful Sponsor Ads!





  2. charly

    charly Guest

    Wow, your taxes are decent. I'll being going to the next meeting they have on the taxes. All the people at the last meeting were talking about hiring a lawyer for everyone. We found out the assessor devalued his home 2 years prior to raising it to the now 79%. He's clever! They reassessed one guy 30,000 dollars, never even went onto his property to see the house, the owner confronted the assessor saying his house can't be seen from the road. So basically the assessor just threw a number out there. They're all crooks! They spent 800,000 dollars restoring a flooded out old post office here, they could have built a new one for 200 thousand. They padded someones pockets with our money! I have an old 30x50 run in barn , I was going to knock down and just put up new and insulate it. They said my taxes would go up 1000 dollars a year for that. I'm going to polish a terd and fix up the present barn. Same thing with the 1840 farm house. We were going to side it, not now, repaint it instead. I put in for my farm ag exemption, a friend hays 40 of the 96 acres here, so I will see what that does for our taxes.
  3. jharkin

    jharkin Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    Messages:
    3,317
    Loc:
    Holliston, MA USA
    Maybe its just me, but $10,000 in property tax for 96 acres doesn't sound bad. I pay almost $6000 on a half acre lot. Land value is about half of my assessment.
  4. charly

    charly Guest

    Living out in the country I think it's high. Our house was built in 1840, foundation 1740. I just think in 10 years you'd have shelled out 100,000 dollars. That would buy a nice motor home, no more taxes!;)
  5. jharkin

    jharkin Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    Messages:
    3,317
    Loc:
    Holliston, MA USA
    I think my $6000 taxes are high also, but for that we get a school system that's in the top 10 of the state, a police force that is actually very visible and active in the community, well maintained park spaces & playgrounds, etc and a lot of other benefits. I don't complain.
  6. charly

    charly Guest

    I hear ya!
  7. MasterMech

    MasterMech Guest

    My in-laws pay nearly 3 times what I do in taxes, live on a 1/4 acre lot, have roughly 2x the sq footage. Their village police force merged (more like evaporated...) with the town, and they have a volunteer fire district like we do. Both of us live within walking distance of a park with playground facilities, and the one in my area is huge with two full-size soccer fields. We both live in top-rated school systems for the area as well. Actually, the two biggest differences in services between the two locations is that they have a sidewalk and the village collects trash 2x a week. I pay 30 bucks a month for once a week pick-up and they provide the 65 gal cans. Plus I don't have to shovel snow from the sidewalk. ==c

    Nobody said the tax system was fair.....
  8. TMonter

    TMonter Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2007
    Messages:
    1,466
    Loc:
    Hayden, ID
    Because in some areas of the country Craig, people actually don't think the government should do everything.

    Property tax here is about $700/year for about 1/2 Acre
    Stegman likes this.
  9. Jack Straw

    Jack Straw Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2008
    Messages:
    2,161
    Loc:
    Schoharie County, N Y
    The sad part is that you may not be able to sell your house unless you ask a low price, houses don't seem to be selling here. The trick here is to have a nice house on a few acres and then buy land without a house on it, not easy to do, but it avoids the high taxes.
  10. charly

    charly Guest

    That's what I was wondering, list 5-10 acres with the house and then the rest ,86 acres is on its' own. I 'll bet the survey wouldn't be cheap to have done. Plus would a separate land deed need to be drawn up and lawyers involved?
  11. TradEddie

    TradEddie Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    722
    Loc:
    SE PA
    Let me start out by saying than on principle, I don't believe that taxes should ever be levied on possession of anything, unless the intent is to discourage possession. Unfortunately, property taxes are a fact of life, so although inherently unfair, they should at least be applied as fairly as possible. I think that that $10K/year on 96 acres of farm land in NY is well within the normal range of value / taxation across the country. If it's not, then as suggested above, appeal, or sell some of the land. A house and 96 acres in TN is going to cost you a heck of a lot less than in NY, you're comparing apples and oranges. I'd much prefer to have 9 acres in upstate NY than 96 in TN.

    TE
  12. ColdNH

    ColdNH Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Messages:
    538
    Loc:
    Bow, NH
    That is really really cheap for NH, About as cheap as it gets. I cant be too far from you and I pay 7800 a year for an 2k sq foot cape on 3.5 acres in Bow. with that said, I love the house, I love the Location, I love NH and We plan on having kids in the future so I wouldnt change a thing.
  13. charly

    charly Guest

    My biggest gripe is an over night increase of 3-4 thousand dollars on your taxes. Some people saw 8000 dollars. I think that is a little unfair.
  14. charly

    charly Guest

    That was mentioned at the last town meeting I was at, homes won't sell. Anyone who received FEMA money for the flood supposedly can never build on that property again, so here's property sitting vacant contributing nothing to the tax base. Not good!
  15. Gary_602z

    Gary_602z Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2009
    Messages:
    930
    Loc:
    Lake Odessa,MI
    I can't complain on our property taxes here in Mich.! House valued around 175k plus 13 acres of land somewhere around 2300.00 total. We do have 6% state sales tax which is reasonable.
    When we built our house 19 years ago the property taxes were about that much and then they passed the Headlee amendment here that cut the property taxes about in half and raised the sales tax from 4% to 6%. I applied the savings in property taxes directly to our mortgage and payed it off in 13-1/2 years on a 15 year note.!

    I would be happy if the Feds would come up with a national sales tax (but that is something for the Ash Can)!:)

    Gary
  16. charly

    charly Guest

    Thanks for all the feed back. At least I have an idea of where I stand. News I got tonight from a friend was the town supervisor is taking the tax assessment thing to court to try and get it rolled back. It was ridiculous that the assessor only did part of the people here and then tried to implement the tax hike. What only some should pay the increase ? And also if more people are paying at a higher tax rate, you would think that there shouldn't be a big increase in each persons taxes, so far that doesn't seem to be the case. I'll see what the property taxes look like when they come. We have a great town supervisor, a retired State Trooper. He's involved in everything, sometimes even spotting him on TV at a few meetings. He's for the people big time,,, old school,, back when cops could kick your butt and send you on your way home, no lawyers to run to then, you learned and behaved!
  17. Gary_602z

    Gary_602z Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2009
    Messages:
    930
    Loc:
    Lake Odessa,MI
    Well said I have great respect for our state troopers and most of the county and very few of the city! Actually got one of the city locals canned for calling one of my drivers a liar in front of a few people!

    Gary
    charly likes this.
  18. jebatty

    jebatty Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2008
    Messages:
    4,412
    Loc:
    Northern MN
    This was a joke, right? I hope you are not saying that people should get FEMA money for a flood, and then rebuild so that they can get FEMA money again for the next flood. Seems to me that people who build in flood plains just might consider that a flood will happen and assume the risk of loss from a flood. Surely that's not asking too much. Some people call that personal responsibility. Others might call it reducing the cost of government by not asking other taxpayers to fund losses from intentional and poor decisions. Maybe this is one of the reasons taxes are so high. Everyone wants other taxpayers to compensate them for their poor decisions.
  19. Jack Straw

    Jack Straw Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2008
    Messages:
    2,161
    Loc:
    Schoharie County, N Y
    You have a great point, but you have to know that we had what was called a 500 year flood. Quite a few homes got flooded that weren't in a flood zone. I do agree with you that the homes in flood zones should not be rebuilt, but there a lot of people who want to for some reason.
    Just imagine if you had 1000 taxable homes in your town and now you have 800, that's the problem.
  20. charly

    charly Guest

    No , I'm simply saying we are losing all these homes, thus loosing the tax base.
  21. charly

    charly Guest

    Jack,
    Talk about wasting FEMA money,,, how about all the FEMA trailers they had shipped here and there they all sat off of I88 never being used.If you were flooded out you had to find someone else out of the flood plane to let you put the temporary trailer on their property. Should have let people use them where they could , protecting their belongings. It's not like this would happen again in the next 100 years. Plus I heard they shipped ones here set up for the South with heat pumps . I heard people had 2000 dollar a month electric bills trying to stay warm in them, units constantly running.
  22. Jack Straw

    Jack Straw Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2008
    Messages:
    2,161
    Loc:
    Schoharie County, N Y
    The response has been awful, they screamed about New Orleans and nothing has been mentioned about it here. We are a small, poor community and no one cares. They wouldn't let them put the trailers where it had flooded, so where were the people supposd to put them? You are correct about the electric bills.
  23. jebatty

    jebatty Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2008
    Messages:
    4,412
    Loc:
    Northern MN
    Most people think that more development = more tax base = more taxes, and somehow that reduces "my taxes" or at least keeps "my taxes" low. The contrary in fact is true. Think for moment about a township with no development, just undeveloped land of whatever kind. That also means no people, no road system, virtually no need for police or fire protection, no children for schools, no sewer, no water, no parks, no other public services. And all of this means low land values and very low taxes for the owners of that land to support the most basic of government services, like perhaps a few roads traversing the township to connect with other townships.

    Now think of a few people moving into the township, building homes, even adding businesses, having children, etc. Then more people, etc. Suddenly the need for the whole host of government services arises. You can be sure that the few people will not pay the full cost of those services, but instead the township will raise needed money for services on all the land in the township, including the undeveloped land. The argument will be that the undeveloped land now is more valuable because it has become developable. So what happens? Those who are developing are paying less than the full cost of the government services the are demanding, and those with undeveloped land are now paying part of the cost of those who are developing and paying high taxes for government services they don't need. And this will happen because the developed land voters out-number the undeveloped land owners (who may not even be able to vote because they are not "residents" of the township and therefore have no say).

    The spiral continues: more development, new development does not pay the full cost of needed services, and that cost is shifted to previously developed and undeveloped properties. Taxes sky-rocket.

    The research shows that on average undeveloped land pays about $1.00 in taxes and receives only about $0.34 in services, while developed land pays about $1.00 in taxes and receives about $1.34 in services. But don't pay too much attention to the amount of the disparity. But also be clear that the disparity is there, it is real and it is expensive.

    I'm not suggesting that we should not have development. But I think development should pay its full cost. If I build a new home on undeveloped land, why should I not buy in to the existing public infrastructure which others have paid for and from which I now benefit? And why shouldn't those who paid for it get a "rebate" or reduced taxes because of my buy in? Development is expensive, very expensive, and developers are not paying the cost. Other taxpayers are paying that cost. It seems to me that this development subsidy by other taxpayers should stop and developers should not only pay their own way but also refund the subsidy they are receiving.

    Fortunately I live in a county and township that is quite averse to building new public roads and even improving existing public roads, and also averse to expanding public services. Our govt officials have at least some understanding of the exorbitant cost of development. Maybe we all should reconsider.
  24. charly

    charly Guest

    Basically what they are doing here is throwing the lost tax revenue from the floods on everyone who still lives here. They denied that was the cause of the big tax increase at a meeting I was at , but half way through the town meeting one state official at the meeting let the cat out of the bag by saying the money had to come form some wheres! Business's that just got back on their feet here are going to be hit again with a full tax assessment next year. I think many will just leave. Good thing is the town supervisor is going to court over the taxe increase imposed on our town and is going to try to get it rolled back. We'll see what the outcome is.
  25. TradEddie

    TradEddie Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    722
    Loc:
    SE PA
    This is the same problem we have at every level, what would you have them do? Nobody wants higher taxes, everybody wants some of the services, so if you can find any significant expenditure that 51% of taxpayers agree to cut, you've achieved a miracle.

    TE

Share This Page