Water Jacket Failure E-Classic
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!Hi,
I looked at your video with some interest.
I have an e-classic purchased last year.
It is hooked up and we are getting ready to start it up for the first time.
I have serious doubts about using it at all.
And this increases them.
By the way in case you don't know, you are not the first to have this problem.
I'm not sure if who doctor posts here as well as on the forestry forum.
But he had the same problem.
The good news is that it's a covered failure if in fact it is a water jacket leak.
And it looks like you'll get an improved design if they do back it up.
(Unlike the fusion chamber where it appears that Central Boiler considers what is an obvious design defect a wear item, which is your responsibility to replace.
Although it looks like in some cases they are grudgingly providing them for free while you install the replacement or in other cases the dealer is accepting full responsibility at his cost and time.)
http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,32705.0.html
(Also someone else posted about CB factory reps testing for corrosion in the firebox. Maybe that's standard op but maybe there is a problem as well.)
Are you absolutely sure this is a water jacket failure and not a leak somewhere else in the system.
Your video made it clear there was a leak.
It wasn't clear to me that it was the water jacket.
I would not be surprised if this turns out to be design problem.
These boilers were designed to be used with firebrick.
I would think the choice for steel and it's thickness would be different for direct exposure to flame, heat and corrosive elements than it would be when the steel is protected by firebrick.
Another issue here is this.
A number of people have commented on having problems bringing the stove up to temperature.
Based on what I have read it's critical that the water temperature in any boiler be above 140 (I believe) otherwise you get serious corrosion problems due to condensation on the firebox where water present on the other side.
It's possible that this is what is causing the problem since a number of people have reported times where the heat wasn't up to this level.
Did you by any chance notice any such problems last heating season?
(Although I would think it would take years for this to eat through the steel.)
You would think they would have this (the right steel) down pat based on all their prior experience with wood boilers.
I looked at your video with some interest.
I have an e-classic purchased last year.
It is hooked up and we are getting ready to start it up for the first time.
I have serious doubts about using it at all.
And this increases them.
By the way in case you don't know, you are not the first to have this problem.
I'm not sure if who doctor posts here as well as on the forestry forum.
But he had the same problem.
The good news is that it's a covered failure if in fact it is a water jacket leak.
And it looks like you'll get an improved design if they do back it up.
(Unlike the fusion chamber where it appears that Central Boiler considers what is an obvious design defect a wear item, which is your responsibility to replace.
Although it looks like in some cases they are grudgingly providing them for free while you install the replacement or in other cases the dealer is accepting full responsibility at his cost and time.)
http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,32705.0.html
(Also someone else posted about CB factory reps testing for corrosion in the firebox. Maybe that's standard op but maybe there is a problem as well.)
Are you absolutely sure this is a water jacket failure and not a leak somewhere else in the system.
Your video made it clear there was a leak.
It wasn't clear to me that it was the water jacket.
I would not be surprised if this turns out to be design problem.
These boilers were designed to be used with firebrick.
I would think the choice for steel and it's thickness would be different for direct exposure to flame, heat and corrosive elements than it would be when the steel is protected by firebrick.
Another issue here is this.
A number of people have commented on having problems bringing the stove up to temperature.
Based on what I have read it's critical that the water temperature in any boiler be above 140 (I believe) otherwise you get serious corrosion problems due to condensation on the firebox where water present on the other side.
It's possible that this is what is causing the problem since a number of people have reported times where the heat wasn't up to this level.
Did you by any chance notice any such problems last heating season?
(Although I would think it would take years for this to eat through the steel.)
You would think they would have this (the right steel) down pat based on all their prior experience with wood boilers.
I am not sure at this point. This morning I open the reaction chamber and found it dry and stove is at the correct temp.
Here are the the items i noted:
1) stove took 6 hrs to get up to temp for our startup which is longer than last year.
2) when i went out to check things out, I opened the reaction chamber and found it wet and full of 2 quarts of water.
3) I bailed the water and checked back 2 hrs later (you can see this part in the video) still wet, but water appeard to be lass.
4) This morning stove is at temp and I don't see any water or wetness in the reaction chamber.
Here are the the items i noted:
1) stove took 6 hrs to get up to temp for our startup which is longer than last year.
2) when i went out to check things out, I opened the reaction chamber and found it wet and full of 2 quarts of water.
3) I bailed the water and checked back 2 hrs later (you can see this part in the video) still wet, but water appeard to be lass.
4) This morning stove is at temp and I don't see any water or wetness in the reaction chamber.
Eric Johnson
Mod Emeritus
Any steam coming out the stack? A small leak will eventually start to boil off and you won't notice it when the boilers is up to temp. Of course, as soon as the fire dies down, the water starts to accumulate again. If that's the case, you should also notice a drop in the water level, if you don't have it hooked up to your domestic water supply (or if the valve is turned off or if it's an unpressurized system--I've forgotten whether the E-Classic is pressurized or not).
webbie
Seasoned Moderator
not pressurized - me thinks.......
It very well can sometimes leak and other times not - depending on heat and other factors.
Perhaps the factory can tell you how they test them (they probably do an air or water pressure test) and you can try it. For instance, a non-pressurized system might be tested at 10PSI just in case....at the factory.
It very well can sometimes leak and other times not - depending on heat and other factors.
Perhaps the factory can tell you how they test them (they probably do an air or water pressure test) and you can try it. For instance, a non-pressurized system might be tested at 10PSI just in case....at the factory.
It is not pressurized. I dont see the water level dropping but will be watching closely. I can tell you that before lighting the boiler yesterday the reaction chamber was dry. This all happened as the water rose from 57 dgrees to 180 degrees.
ecrane99 said:
I am not familiar with the E-classic or it's "reaction chamber" but could this just be condensation?If your Wood was a little wet, damp out, and 57 degree starting
temp would seem a recipe for condensation.
E-crane, did you have rain ? check in the back at heat exhanger tubes . may have filled through stack ????
I'm hoping it was just water in the fireboxes etc.
Rupture wouldn't be cool....Good luck, keep us posted.
Rupture wouldn't be cool....Good luck, keep us posted.
Chris Hoskin
TarmSalesGuy
This is a good example of why you need to control the return water temp. Starting from a cold boiler its not possible but if you were doing that all the time you would have holes in no time. Water is a by product of burning and then with all the water you have to boil out of the wood it can mean alot of condensation on cold boiler walls and mixing with the ash and creasote and you have a rust bucket.
leaddog
leaddog
heaterman
Minister of Fire
A leak there would surely ruin a persons day............But............I would guess that what you are seeing is flue gas condensation due to the very cold water. Keep an eye on it and keep us posted.
Fired up a Garn yesterday that was sitting at 47*. I wanted to avoid several buckets of condensation so I built a small but very hot, intense fire with some lumber scraps the owner had from a construction project. Kept the fire small but the flue temp over 300* and barely got a drip from the exhaust. I had to feed it every 10 minutes from start up to about 100* water temp. Most gassers condense at anything below 140-150* and I doubt the CB would be an exception.
Fired up a Garn yesterday that was sitting at 47*. I wanted to avoid several buckets of condensation so I built a small but very hot, intense fire with some lumber scraps the owner had from a construction project. Kept the fire small but the flue temp over 300* and barely got a drip from the exhaust. I had to feed it every 10 minutes from start up to about 100* water temp. Most gassers condense at anything below 140-150* and I doubt the CB would be an exception.
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