what gas to use

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billz

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Oct 9, 2008
49
Fountain Inn SC
I was told to use 89 octane gas in my stihl farm boss. The gas station near me has non-ethanol gas but its 87 octane.

so would you use non ethanol 87 octane
0r 89 octane with ethanol?
 
Me: the 87 and if it runs well then no need to change. If not - get some of the 89 but I doubt the 2pts will make a difference but the NON-E might
 
The ethanol wrecks havoc on carbs....Husqvarna says nothing less than 87 and it has worked fine for me.... I find it odd you can buy 87 non-ethanol but not 89
 
Aren't all carbs on new saws ok with ethanol fuel? As I recall the issue was with rubber parts. Correct?
 
Most new 2 cycles say "Ok for up to 10% ethanol". But I don't trust the 10% rating on the pump. Testing has shown some have 15-20% ethanol. Same testing revealed non-ethanol pumps did indeed contain 100% gasoline. I use only Non ethanol / 100% gasoline in small engines. Some stations have 87 octane non-eth. Some have 93 oct non-eth. You can check your area here: http://pure-gas.org/
 
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I was told to use 89 octane gas in my stihl farm boss. The gas station near me has non-ethanol gas but its 87 octane.

so would you use non ethanol 87 octane
0r 89 octane with ethanol?
I would go with 89 and add STA-BIL ethanol removal.
 
I think my Stihl manual says something to the effect that the saw will run hotter. I'm currently running 87 with no ethanol in my saw and weed whacker. Not sure if it's better or worse for it than 89 with 10%.
 
Aren't all carbs on new saws ok with ethanol fuel? As I recall the issue was with rubber parts. Correct?

The diaphragm and gaskets in the carburetor are rubber-like synthetics that may be affected by ethanol.

If you are referring to Husqvarna's Autotune or Stihl's M-Tronic carburetor systems, the settings are automatically adjusted (tuned) to different fuels, including various concentrations of ethanol (within limits); however, these systems will not prevent degradation of rubber or rubber-like materials as a result of ethanol exposure.
 
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Don't you think by now they have resolved the issue with ethanol affected parts?
 
Yes . . . to a degree.

For long term storage putting a bit of stabilizer in the fuel to prevent water/fuel separation may be worth the small cost . . . at least to me. As mentioned, I'm pretty good at remembering to put it in the "bigger" machinery that gets "put up" for the winter or summer . . . not so good with some of the smaller engines.
 
Personally I use non ethanol for all my yard equipment. I have never experienced a difference in the way it runs if it's fresh fuel but it does not seem to store well. 5 gallons of fuel may not get used for a month or two and the cost difference is nominal when your talking mower and saw use.
 
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I run premium 91 octane. Conoco in town is the only place that has premium with no ethanol in it. I also use startron fuel additive and dolmar's synthetic oil
 
I just buy the same stuff I use when I'm filling the truck....never paid much attention to gas type and havent had a problem in any of my things.
 
I'd take non-ethanol 87 over ethanol 89 anyday. Luckily we can get 93 non-ethanol about 3 miles away for $3.49/gallon.

Here's website for finding non-ethanol:

http://pure-gas.org/
 
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I was told to use 89 octane gas in my stihl farm boss. The gas station near me has non-ethanol gas but its 87 octane.

so would you use non ethanol 87 octane
0r 89 octane with ethanol?

Try both. Your saw will run fine on either one but may show a preference.
 
I'd go for the 89 and try to find some with 10% ethanol. That is what I run in everything from weed eaters, leaf blowers, chainsaws, snow blowers, jet skis, etc. If you do happen to get any water condensation in the tank from setting, the ethanol will solubilize it. (it's like having built in "Heet"). Your saw will be able to make a bit more power with a little less heat, due to the better burning properties of ethanol. Plus the ethanol seems to act as a pretty good 'co solvent' for all the nasty things gas does such as fuel system deposits and combustion chamber carbon, etc.

ie - oil in my car after 6,000+ miles on E85:
6koil.jpg


The only time I've noticed an issue was at work where someone filled a generator with "100% real gas" and let it set for a few months. The gas broke down and varnished up the carb bad. I tore the carb down and it literally smelled like someone broke open a can of varnish. Tried a couple different 'fuel system cleaners' to get the coating off the parts and nothing really worked. Then (remembering a 'science experiment' from my childhood where I spilled ethanol on mom's table and it dissolved the varnish before I could say "uh oh") I tried some ethanol on the carb. In two minutes all the varnish was gone and ready for re-assembly.

As for all the anti-ethanol products out there, I'd skip those too. ...probably made by the same folks scam artists selling those $400 Amish 'copper' heaters. Stroll any liquor store and note the vintage bottles of wine, 17 year old scotch, etc. It's pretty clear the ethanol is not breaking down with age.
 
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I've lately started using Hess 93 octane because 1) it's the only station around that has individual hoses for each grade & 2) the premium this week was 3.13 p/gallon. I put 2 2.6 oz bottles (5.2 oz) of either Stihl Ultra synthetic or Dolmar Full Synthetic into a two gallon can, and ask for $5.00 worth of gas, which comes out to 1.6 gallons @ just about 40:1. There is no ethanol free gas in Jersey as far as I know.

It seems to me that my 365 XT starts easier and runs smoother. The same mix goes into other saws, backpack & hand held blowers, and Echo string trimmer with good results.
 
I'd go for the 89 and try to find some with 10% ethanol. That is what I run in everything from weed eaters, leaf blowers, chainsaws, snow blowers, jet skis, etc. If you do happen to get any water condensation in the tank from setting, the ethanol will solubilize it. (it's like having built in "Heet")....

You forgot to tell us about phase separation.
 
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There is no ethanol free gas in Jersey as far as I know.

Looks like there's only one and it's 110 Octane:
ChatsworthSUNOCO110Griffin Vehicle Service [609-726-1717]1551 County Rd 532
 
You forgot to tell us about phase separation.

Whoops...sorry. Yes - with 100% gas, any moisture at all will cause phase separation. Even one single drop will go straight to the bottom of the tank, sit there and wait to be sucked up in the carb. With some alcohol in the mix, the water will be completely solubilized and burned harmlessly in the engine.

Test I did adding water. Note the level of the test tube on the left is a bit higher than that on the right. That is water which has been completely solubilized by the ethanol. With 100% gas, you get a slug of water sitting at the bottom and gas on top.

1mlwater_zpscb0baa6c.jpg
 
Whoops...sorry. Yes - with 100% gas, any moisture at all will cause phase separation. Even one single drop will go straight to the bottom of the tank, sit there and wait to be sucked up in the carb. With some alcohol in the mix, the water will be completely solubilized and burned harmlessly in the engine.

Test I did adding water. Note the level of the test tube on the left is a bit higher than that on the right. That is water which has been completely solubilized by the ethanol. With 100% gas, you get a slug of water sitting at the bottom and gas on top.

That is not phase separation nor is it scientifically rigorous. You added a substance which which was so polar that it never was dissolved in the organic layer to form one phase and then later separate. I gave you a chance, but you still never mentioned that you will get a phase separation (organic vs. aqueous) once there is enough moisture to cause saturation. Once the more dense and polar aqueous layer forms (not just the water, but water PLUS ALL THE ETHANOL), it will indeed form on the bottom of the fuel tank. Guess where the fuel take up is likely to be in these small engines--yep, in the bottom of the tank taking in the aqueous layer first. DISASTER. Also, once the temperature drops, saturation and the resultant phase separation of ALL THE ETHANOL out of the gasoline is stimulated by an even much lower concentration of water.

You also never mentioned anything about degradation, cracking, and stiffening of rubber and other polymers in the system--fuel lines, carburetor diaphragms, and other components.

With all due respect, you sound like you have an interest in promoting ethanol and ethanol products. There are many like you in the "Midwest." In the interest of full disclosure, please tell us about your connections, directly or indirectly, to ethanol producers including whether you are in an ethanol producing state that has a significant lobby in Congress.
 
Also, I'm not against additives to address what moisture forms in a gas can or fuel tank, but 10% ethanol from the pump is not necessary for small engines and causes more problems, and potentially very expensive problems, than it's worth.
 
That is not phase separation nor is it scientifically rigorous. You added a substance which which was so polar that it never was dissolved in the organic layer to form one phase and then later separate. I gave you a chance, but you still never mentioned that you will get a phase separation (organic vs. aqueous) once there is enough moisture to cause saturation. Once the more dense and polar aqueous layer forms (not just the water, but water PLUS ALL THE ETHANOL), it will indeed form on the bottom of the fuel tank. Guess where the fuel take up is likely to be in these small engines--yep, in the bottom of the tank taking in the aqueous layer first. DISASTER. Also, once the temperature drops, saturation and the resultant phase separation of ALL THE ETHANOL out of the gasoline is stimulated by an even much lower concentration of water.

You also never mentioned anything about degradation, cracking, and stiffening of rubber and other polymers in the system--fuel lines, carburetor diaphragms, and other components.

With all due respect, you sound like you have an interest in promoting ethanol and ethanol products. There are many like you in the "Midwest." In the interest of full disclosure, please tell us about your connections, directly or indirectly, to ethanol producers including whether you are in an ethanol producing state that has a significant lobby in Congress.

We're both saying the same thing, I think ... if not, clarify and I can show ya where you're wrong. :)

The fact remains:

pure gasoline + any water = phase separation, plugged carb, possibly dead engine

ethanol/gas blend + some water = solubilized water burned harmlessly in the engine.

I'm not saying you can't dump in a bucket of water and get the ethanol to separate, but for any nominal amount likely to accumulate under normal circumstances, assuming you actually put the gas cap back on, it is no issue.

Seals - yes, leather, natural rubber, latex of the 50's, 60's, 70's-ish vintage can have issues with ethanol. But really, the formulation of "gasoline" is so much different than it used to be, those materials would probably have issues with the modern stuff regardless.

Anything with modern materials... say the last 25-30 years is generally fine. Though standard disclaimer here...what usually happens is 10 or 15 year old parts wear out and suddenly it's an 'ethanol issue' ... we somewhat loose track of the fact 15 years is quite a long time for a part to be exposed to gasoline as well. Go look at a cheapo bottle of vodka...plastic, and it's not exactly breaking down due to the alcohol. Surely high end saw manufacturers can use materials as least as good as a disposable plastic bottle.

Regarding disclosure - no monetary interest / gain from ethanol what so ever. If we're going on location - I see "Western PA", so maybe I struck and oil/gas/coal nerve? If so, sorry about that - I'm not saying don't use gas, just that if it has a bit of ethanol, it's not going to make ya go blind, grow hair on your back and cause all the other nasty stuff usually attributed to it.
 
I was told to use 89 octane gas in my stihl farm boss. The gas station near me has non-ethanol gas but its 87 octane.

so would you use non ethanol 87 octane
0r 89 octane with ethanol?

With so many conflicting opinions dod you get any answer?Me, in my saws I use good old regular laced with Marine Stabil. Seems to do the trick.. You can buy pre-mixed (40-1 or 50-1) gas in quart screw top cans now thats no alcohol for an option. Baileys sells it by the case, TSC has it in individual cans by the chainsaws.
 
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