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What green thing(s) are you doing to contribute?

Post in 'The Green Room' started by dave_dj1, Mar 30, 2012.

  1. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

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  2. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    I don't socialize anymore. Saves a ton of driving. I just live virtually now. >>
  3. jimbom

    jimbom Combustion Analyzer

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    Missouri Ozarks
    We cannot ignore the debt. These figures were before the tsunami and nuclear power plant meltdown.
    http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/774/economics/list-of-national-debt-by-country/
    https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2186.html#175
    Having fewer children did not cause Japan to amass the largest debt/GDP in the world. The interest on their debt is low, but still an astonishing drag on the economy. This anemic economy generates less tax revenue exacerbating the problem.

    My only point is it is misleading to point to demographics causing economic downward spirals. Birthrates respond in part to economic conditions more than drive economic conditions.

    Massive debt ruins families, businesses, and countries. Any scholar who says, tut tut there common person, "You really don't understand how things work." is a charlatan.
  4. SolarAndWood

    SolarAndWood Minister of Fire

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    Syracuse NY
    I complimented my 11 year old 11 mpg truck with a 6 year old 40+ mpg car tonight. While it was primarily an economic decision, eliminating 800 gallons of needless fuel consumption a year also feels good. It also means that I will replace the consumption and maintenance of a 3 ton truck with a diesel powered car half its weight.
  5. Wingman

    Wingman Member

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    Loc:
    St. Louis
    I of course burn wood, locally sourced. Recently replaced all of our windows with efficient ones. Use rain barrels for watering edible and non edible gardens. Compost most all food scraps. When running the dish washer, set a timer to go off around the time the drying cycle starts, then turn it off and open for air drying. CFL's. If its not being used, shut it down. Purchasing fruits and veggies at the local Farmers market, cloth diapering, kid clothes sharing between family and friends.

    Projects in the works: Solar can heater, solar hot water, basement air sealing, energy audit, outside clothes rack, add more attic insulation.
  6. btuser

    btuser Minister of Fire

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    High Five!

    That didn't work out well. Now I'm self-conscious.
  7. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

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    Loc:
    Standish, ME

    Welcome to the world of lot hermits and be careful about the sites you visit.
  8. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Sites? _g You mean there's more than Hearth.com? ==c
    surviverguy likes this.
  9. lukem

    lukem Minister of Fire

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    TDI? My BIL just got a '03 Jetta TDI and he's getting about 48 mpg. I'm jealous.
  10. btuser

    btuser Minister of Fire

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    semipro likes this.
  11. semipro

    semipro Minister of Fire

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    Instead of "stasis" let's call it "steady state" or "stability" or "equilibrium" then.

    There's no disputing that age demographics will temporarily affect a nation's finances.
    Continued growth of a tax base will always help increase the bottom line.
    Our country's population growth has no doubt allowed us to live above our needs within a financial model that is basically not sustainable in the long term.
    As long as we predicate fiscal viability on growth we'll have to be prepared to weather the downturns also.
    Our society won't truly be sustainable, in the broad sense of the word, until we can establish sound financial policy without reliance upon "growth".
  12. semipro

    semipro Minister of Fire

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    It is, however, working great for Germany though?
    I understand causal statistics well enough not to draw such conclusions. Economics are very complex with many drivers.
    I don't give much credence to sources such as the one cited here either. They're hardly objective on this subject.
  13. SolarAndWood

    SolarAndWood Minister of Fire

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    Yep, '06 low mileage single owner on its way from Texas. 48 mpg would make me very happy and the truck will last a long time if it is only used when its really needed.
  14. JP11

    JP11 Minister of Fire

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    Central Maine
    I've been making and driving on my own biofuel for 4 years. It's about a buck a gallon all in price. I also have been heating my home on about 65% biodiesel.

    I'm adding the wood boiler, so I'll be 100% on my own with my 70 acres of wood. Nice to know that things I own can keep me warm perpetually. I run the biodiesel in the car about 8 months a year. It doesn't do well in the winter.

    JP
  15. DBoon

    DBoon Minister of Fire

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    Hi JP11, how do you run your boiler on B65 biodiesel? I've read that more than 5% biodiesel in the mix is problematic for most burners.
  16. Seasoned Oak

    Seasoned Oak Minister of Fire

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    THe older (90s) ones did even better 55 Hwy 40s city. It seems new emission regs are the culprit.
  17. btuser

    btuser Minister of Fire

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    I've heard rumors about Riello burners running on 100% biodiesel. Depending on the year/build and a little pre-heating nothing is impossible.
  18. JP11

    JP11 Minister of Fire

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    I opted to put a beckett AFG burner in my Buderus. I did run B100 for a while. It just doesn't have enough BTUs. I put in a nozzle line heater. I also changed out the suntec clean cut pump for a webster B100 compatible pump. I've been running it 4 years without a problem.

    I pumped the pressure to 140, painted the inside of the burner tube chrome (flame is just a bit dull for photo eye) I can make it a steady 350 to 400 hours between cleanings. Sometimes I crack it and it's real clean... others it's a years worth of dirty in 5 or 6 weeks. That's the varying nature of the viscosity of the fuel.

    I also added a clean cut solenoid. As I lost the one when I changed pumps. It helps the nozzle "pop" on and off clean.

    I added a secondary spin on filter, and routed a return to tank. That helps keep it extra filtered and stirred up.

    I end up doing about 4 cleanings, and two nozzle changes a year. Completely worth it for a 2.50 a gallon savings in fuel. Especially since I'm burning 1500 gallons a year.

    JP
  19. gtjp

    gtjp New Member

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    Loc:
    north midwest
    Hey JP11 from JP, Ohio:

    Howz that compare to the usual 11,000 to 12,000 KWH per year I have implemented with a similar 1500 gal user of usual oil burning, for HW and Heat ( but that includes cooling that makes HW free-er, on demand like an oil HW tank)
    60,000 net BtuH in Cooling High Speed - (Size: 5.1/2ton GT Ht Pump, 3800 sq ft over 1990's insulated 1400 sq ft basement and all HW for fam of 5...)

    a 5500 sq ft over 2000 basement uses 13,800-14,500 kwh, living 71 deg.

    What would the transportation and fuel costs compare to that in your Area-Dollars for electricity, on say all electric ratings and fees...?

    geopros.org

    GTJP
  20. JP11

    JP11 Minister of Fire

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    Sorry.. You lost me there for a bit! :)

    This year my price is set to go up.... My source of bulk methanol is gone. I should have no problem staying well under 1.75 a gallon or so costs all in.

    Electricity? It's not an option at all in Maine. I know of only a few houses that have it (most are a failed 70s experiment) and most of them add on something like pellets because of the expense.

    I collect the grease on my way to and from work. I make the fuel while I'm working around the house. Just to make round numbers...

    1000 gallons of fuel. 118k btu per gallon on my biofuel. So call it net 100k btu per gallon. 118Million BTUs for 1750 dollars. Compare that to 135million BTUs if it was #2 fuel for a cost of 3500 dollars today's cost.

    Not sure how that would stack up to your electric prices.

    JP
  21. woodgeek

    woodgeek Minister of Fire

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    1 gallon of #2 = 110 kBTU (output) = 32 kWh of elec.

    At $0.15/kwh, it is matched to $4.86/gal

    or $4/gal oil (about right for most folks factoring in service) breaks even with $0.12/kWh in resistance strip.
  22. btuser

    btuser Minister of Fire

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    How about an electric boiler? I know you couldn't zone it the same but is there about the same loss/value for electric heat if you use water to move the heat?
    Normande likes this.
  23. btuser

    btuser Minister of Fire

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    I tried to get grease for a while but most places don't want to bother with it. Somebody sometime stopped showing up to pump out the drums when it got too cold, or wasn't reliable or tried to get the restaurant to strain/condition the grease first for them so they just stopped.

    I heard it's more cost efficient to do SVO, but you have to preheat and have dual tanks in a vehicle.
  24. JP11

    JP11 Minister of Fire

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    I have a friend with an SVO kit. He spent several thousand dollars, and 3/4 of his trunk is taken up by a tank and he's always worried about making a mess.

    He struggles with bad grease and filtering it.

    I spent half as much.. keep the mess out of my car. I am very fortunate that I have a GREAT grease source that does pre-filter for me. I eat there frequently and I give him a little cash now and then to keep him happy. More often than not, I barter with my wife's photography services for the restaurant owner's family. They are my neighbors.

    I need to shop methanol for this season. I'm sure my costs are going up over last year's BUCK a gallon all in price.
  25. gtjp

    gtjp New Member

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    Loc:
    north midwest
    THANKS JP11 and all again!
    QUOTING:
    1 gallon of #2 = 110 MBTU (output) = 32 kWh of elec.
    At $0.15/kwh, it is matched to $4.86/gal

    ~~~ (I do have 3 used (R-22 Systems, shipped w/nitrogen only) <all for open or closed loop, last 2 have flow controllers OEM>:
    (1) HW-on-demand and F/Air-Heat only, 1993-2007, gets new 38k compressor (rated's 4.0 size comparably) when ordered; (2) a F-Air and HW 100% instant, 2000-2010 44k dual compressors (rated's 4.1/2 ton) , fine condition; (3) a F-Air, sm HW Gen DeSuperheater, 54k (like r-22, 5-ton rated's)
    3 yr warranty and loop and application designs inclusive, per order (quote per application).

    TO COMPARE PREVIOUS
    With 1000 gallon loads/ heating and HW only:
    Installations in retrofitting farm homes to new custom homes ---
    found a typical 46,ooo - 50,ooo BtuH (older R-22) Compressor found in 4.1/2ton "rated" GeoThermal Heat Pumps, does nicely eliminate all supplemental heating for 95% of the winters (averaging).
    This only used ~ metered: 8400-9500 KWH comparing to ~ 32000 at all-electric.
    This is why in maintenance dollars, for the 90% GT out there, are claims of 80% $aved over #2 oil ' on-the-dollars ' over the 3-4 year returns on investment- heating only with HW 100% heating; and sooner ROI's if deducting a new Ht P hi-Eff for A/C and warm air, respectively.

    An open loop well 52-deg water Pump-Dump in a ditch out performs that by another 6%-12%---- if not lifting water much over 80-ft <we limit dynamic lift at ~ 125 ft with today's well pumps>; and but more so-- not another aquifer is used on/in a second well unless very sandy or clean-gravel aquifer, no iron, no solids to plug 2nd well...
    (possibly contaminating, as unlikely same aquifer receives same clean discharged well water, etc)
    Towers in Dayton OH have had 2 wells as close as 90ft, on 250 ton "chillers" since the 70's.

    :::
    If the newer r410a , being heating averaging 8% or so less efficient than R-22, field-apples to field-apples...
    is compared~ ie) rated "5-ton", today's sales,
    then it appears a cold-two-months on a ground loop well-designed at 34-deg+f, supplying GT System, pumped over 3GPM per rated "Ton" through loop (ECL, gle), you may only save ~ 70% over # 2 oil, GT HW production over ~ 104 deg, anything, barely save 4% (on $)over a Canadian IBC 98% eff HW Boiler www.ibcboiler.com (gallery: www.GEOPros.org )
    Saving ~ 60% to all electric F/Air- HW , 50% to Electric-Radiant or compared to 4- zoning systems (spot heating) and Electric mats in floors without fluids... (very considerable use of those mats, sometimes)
    ~ only 40% over Propane dollars... etc.

    Although nGAS ~$4 or less and elec near 6 cents, total bills with ~ 15,000 mcf or ~ 1500 kwh (GT) still average over $11. /mcf and over $.12 electric in Ohio , currently, at that lower right bottom of the bill number.

    So in COP 100% Electric= 1
    GT at COP 3.5- 3.6, coldest months , closed loops in ground, but good ones...
    GT may not be a great short term investment over ~ $ 1750/ 1000 gallons << comparing .12 x1000 KWH and some back up heat in -7 deg below zero winters,
    ?
    BUT WHAT's the average home owner paying for all pro maintenance, compared to just changing filters them self, if GT is "maintenance-inspection-free-er" ?

    geoJon
    gtjp , Ohio

    Dad had 2 wood burners in Cincinnati in city, one flu had HW recovery tubing to water heater~ 8 wraps of 3/4 OD <k-cu pipe>... around vent before double-wall, then. 37x42 contractors house 2 story, had nGas high $400 Jan nGas bills in 2002 ! Bor. uses a couple Kero heaters and one wood burner, 'til sold this year !

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