Did wood pellets take over for corn? Are pellets a fungible substitute for corn in a corn stove? I don't know much about corn stoves. Just remember hearing about corn fuel from a few years ago.
What hap to corn stoves?
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John97
Feeling the Heat
In many areas, pellets are cheaper than corn. Many stoves are multi-fuel and can burn both (with our without modifications and/or extra parts).
To buy a ton of Corn around me (screened, cleaned, and bagged in 50 lb sacks) is over $300 a ton.
That's what happened. Multi Fuel stoves are still around and one day, down the road, it may be viable to burn corn again.
But pellets are much cheaper and much "cleaner" to burn.
That's what happened. Multi Fuel stoves are still around and one day, down the road, it may be viable to burn corn again.
But pellets are much cheaper and much "cleaner" to burn.
I like burning corn much better than pellets. My st croix burns corn w/ very little flyash, just have to drop the clinker every 1 1/2 days and that can be done on the fly. I dont like the stir pot corn burners they do burn very dirty. My ash w/ corn is light brown in the lower part of stove to snow white in the top of the stove. But I am burning pellets due to cost ;(DexterDay said:
tjnamtiw
Minister of Fire
What happened to corn? Ask the EPA that one! Fed subsidies on corn for ethanol plus now they have pushed from 10% to 15% ethanol so the price of EVERYTHING that uses corn will go even higher. Never mind that it's a losing situation to make ethanol from corn, hence the incentives (read that as OUR money).
The 15% fuel will only be able to be used in the last two model years. I have no idea how they plan on having a third pump ---- 10% regular, 15% regular, premium. Maybe they'll resurrect the old Sunoco dial-a-blend pumps.
The 15% fuel will only be able to be used in the last two model years. I have no idea how they plan on having a third pump ---- 10% regular, 15% regular, premium. Maybe they'll resurrect the old Sunoco dial-a-blend pumps.
vinny11950
Minister of Fire
tjnamtiw said:What happened to corn? Ask the EPA that one! Fed subsidies on corn for ethanol plus now they have pushed from 10% to 15% ethanol so the price of EVERYTHING that uses corn will go even higher. Never mind that it's a losing situation to make ethanol from corn, hence the incentives (read that as OUR money).
The 15% fuel will only be able to be used in the last two model years. I have no idea how they plan on having a third pump ---- 10% regular, 15% regular, premium. Maybe they'll resurrect the old Sunoco dial-a-blend pumps.
To be fair, it wasn't only the EPA mandate, but the Ethanol subsidies that drove up corn prices. Those subsidies were allowed to expire at the end of 2011. I am hoping it will bring down corn prices, and maybe corn pellet prices will become competitive again.
SmokeyTheBear
Minister of Fire
vinny11950 said:tjnamtiw said:What happened to corn? Ask the EPA that one! Fed subsidies on corn for ethanol plus now they have pushed from 10% to 15% ethanol so the price of EVERYTHING that uses corn will go even higher. Never mind that it's a losing situation to make ethanol from corn, hence the incentives (read that as OUR money).
The 15% fuel will only be able to be used in the last two model years. I have no idea how they plan on having a third pump ---- 10% regular, 15% regular, premium. Maybe they'll resurrect the old Sunoco dial-a-blend pumps.
To be fair, it wasn't only the EPA mandate, but the Ethanol subsidies that drove up corn prices. Those subsidies were allowed to expire at the end of 2011. I am hoping it will bring down corn prices, and maybe corn pellet prices will become competitive again.
Those subsidies were because of the EPA mandate and the then lack of ethanol production capacity to meet the mandate.
KodiakII
Minister of Fire
What were you paying for pellets a couple of years ago when there was a "shortage"? I was burning corn @ four dollars a bag, TSC (This stuff's Chinese Store) is now selling it for nine dollars a bag...you do the math.
vinny11950
Minister of Fire
SmokeyTheBear said:vinny11950 said:tjnamtiw said:What happened to corn? Ask the EPA that one! Fed subsidies on corn for ethanol plus now they have pushed from 10% to 15% ethanol so the price of EVERYTHING that uses corn will go even higher. Never mind that it's a losing situation to make ethanol from corn, hence the incentives (read that as OUR money).
The 15% fuel will only be able to be used in the last two model years. I have no idea how they plan on having a third pump ---- 10% regular, 15% regular, premium. Maybe they'll resurrect the old Sunoco dial-a-blend pumps.
To be fair, it wasn't only the EPA mandate, but the Ethanol subsidies that drove up corn prices. Those subsidies were allowed to expire at the end of 2011. I am hoping it will bring down corn prices, and maybe corn pellet prices will become competitive again.
Those subsidies were because of the EPA mandate and the then lack of ethanol production capacity to meet the mandate.
True, but it was also a really good subsidy for farmers, which farming states didn't want to give up, even though it didn't make since to make ethanol from corn. Last I heard, it was costing $6 billion a year.
The point I am making is that it became something political. The reason they let them expire was because, supposedly, farmers are doing much better now that commodity prices are up and farming land values have doubled in the last ten years. So they can afford to not have them. So the congressmen from those states didn't put up a fight to keep them.
Still, I don't think corn prices will be affected by it much, as commodity prices keep going up.
rona
Minister of Fire
How many people remember the so called balance of trade? Meaning we buy so many dollars of product from one country and they buy similar amount from us.
Do you know how much we buy from China?? it is a lot
What do we sell China?? US made cars? nope very little. What do we have that they buy from us?
Grain, meaning corn wheat etc. Do some digging and find out what else we export - I see grain-meat - and coal as the larger exports.
I have been burning ethanol since 85 in cars pickups chainsaws ,lawn mowers, boat motors, and older gas tractors.
Since then I have replaced a few rubber gas lines with newer style and that's about all I can blame on that gas. Of course it won't last as long in small engines but add either sty bill or sea foam and that eliminates starting problem.
We have been able to buy a blend of anything from 85% to 10% for at least a year and I have been burning 15% with no noticeable effects.
Was ethanol subsidized yes it was . Is solar power subsidized and wind power? Both are and will continue to be a pipe dream . As I remember my history railroads were heavily subsidized also. Now that I think of it didn't Brazil get a bunch of money for deep sea oil drilling off our coasts?
I wish I knew where corn was 8.00 a bushel Last year if you were watching you could get 7.00 locally but I never seen 8.00 Where is that money going? fertilizer, fuel, seed, machinery,cash rent, and taxes. Does it end up in someones Swiss hidden bank account or in obamas retirement account?
I burned corn or pellets for over 8 or 9 years and yes when I started corn was only 1.50 a bushel which made cheap heat but some people were yelping about burning food products back then. Try to explain to some people there is edible corn and feed corn and they just don't understand. Finally I told them to buy a bushel and cook it.
Do you know how much we buy from China?? it is a lot
What do we sell China?? US made cars? nope very little. What do we have that they buy from us?
Grain, meaning corn wheat etc. Do some digging and find out what else we export - I see grain-meat - and coal as the larger exports.
I have been burning ethanol since 85 in cars pickups chainsaws ,lawn mowers, boat motors, and older gas tractors.
Since then I have replaced a few rubber gas lines with newer style and that's about all I can blame on that gas. Of course it won't last as long in small engines but add either sty bill or sea foam and that eliminates starting problem.
We have been able to buy a blend of anything from 85% to 10% for at least a year and I have been burning 15% with no noticeable effects.
Was ethanol subsidized yes it was . Is solar power subsidized and wind power? Both are and will continue to be a pipe dream . As I remember my history railroads were heavily subsidized also. Now that I think of it didn't Brazil get a bunch of money for deep sea oil drilling off our coasts?
I wish I knew where corn was 8.00 a bushel Last year if you were watching you could get 7.00 locally but I never seen 8.00 Where is that money going? fertilizer, fuel, seed, machinery,cash rent, and taxes. Does it end up in someones Swiss hidden bank account or in obamas retirement account?
I burned corn or pellets for over 8 or 9 years and yes when I started corn was only 1.50 a bushel which made cheap heat but some people were yelping about burning food products back then. Try to explain to some people there is edible corn and feed corn and they just don't understand. Finally I told them to buy a bushel and cook it.
rona said:
I'm glad you have had good results but here in NE we have had PLENTY of problems with f#&*ing ethanol in gas. It has cost the marine industry and boat owners millions, possibly more. The ethanol melts fiberglass fuel tanks, the liquefied resins coat the fuel system, gum up carbs, injectors, intake valves, etc. I have TWO useless outboards because I cannot get ethanol resistant carb floats. Snowblowers, any two cycle powertools, all run like crap with the non-adjustable EPA mandated carbs we can't adjust for the leaner mixtures resulting from the ethanol. The only solution is to add extra oil to the fuel mix to keep the two cycles alive. Used to be able to use unleaded premium in aircraft. Can't get it anymore so we are stuck using avgas at twice the price. Ethanol in aircraft is a no no. I don't dare leave any fuel in a genset, etc. I make sure to drain them all, run them dry. If this is some of the "benefits" of ethanol, I can't wait to see the bad stuff.
RT
PerfectaDude
New Member
Simple answer, corn is a feed stock, pellets are not. This is why, until they perfect the making of ethanol using methods other than corn fermentation, you won't see E85 readily available anywhere. Using a feed stock as a fuel is never a good idea, using waste products is. A few years back there was a company making pellets from corn stalks and other field waste left over after the harvest, don't know what ever happened to them. A corn stove might be good if you live in say Iowa and happen to own a couple hundred acres of corn field, for the rest of us it just never made sense. I used to burn cherry pits when you could get them at TSC, they went and reduced the bag size to 30# and raised the price so it makes little sense now. They burned nice but I found I had to mix them with pellets to keep them from blowing out of the burn pot.
PerfectaDude
New Member
smoke show said:
China is a trade partner and the next World Superpower, we live in a Global Economy now, get used to it. Remember hearing about the New World Order in the 80's? Well it is here.
PerfectaDude
New Member
KodiakII said:
Speaking of the "shortage" I read recently that we exported 160 Million Tons of pellets last year, we would probably all be paying less than $4.00 a bag had those pellets stayed here. From the pellet manufacturers perspective though it is probably a lot easier to dump the pellets in a container and send them overseas than it is to bag and distribute them throughout the U.S. but still.
rona
Minister of Fire
PerfectaDude said:
Where do you live? E-85 has been available for probably 5 years or more. Haven't you heard of flex fuel vehicles?
As far as feed corn being wasted the left over is a highly sought cattle feed.
Using corn stubble and other waste for making ethanol is being tested but so far not economically feasible. Maybe by artificially raising other energy prices it may become feasible but a lot of money has been spent so far with no positive results.
Burning crop waste as pellets was being done with corn stalks, soybean stubble, sunflower hulls. Google Eagle Biomass Fuels. But they may be out of business because they were pretty high priced and had lots of ash.
As I remember they were charging over 5.00 a 40lb bag and I could get wood pellets for 4.00 a bag so that didn't work.
PerfectaDude
New Member
rona said:
Sure, I have heard of flex fuel vehicles, been driving one for 4 years, fat lot of good it does me, you can't get E85 anywhere in the NY/NJ/Philadelphia region, at least not if you don't want to drive 50 miles out of your way to get it.
Never said that any corn whatsoever was waste, corn is food whether it be for animals or humans who end up eating the animals.
Coskata was working on converting various waste streams into syngas which could then be turned into ethanol, haven't heard much about them in a while I know GM invested a lot of money in the technology.
There is a company in Ireland I believe that has found a way to turn human waste into a burnable fuel, can't wait to try a bag of Poo-Pellets, wonder what kind of ash those will produce.
jtakeman
Minister of Fire
No E85 in my area either. But the pumps are filled with a 10% mix. My 2 stroke outboard hates this crap. Carb gets this white powder like crud in it and starts running lean. Even with the special treatment you need to keep an eye on it.
I lost my 1986 15hp Johnson the first season they came out with this after replacing the MTPB additive. It leaned out and seized because of the junk in the carb. Had to buy new a Yamaha 8hp(all I could afford) to replace it.
I lost my 1986 15hp Johnson the first season they came out with this after replacing the MTPB additive. It leaned out and seized because of the junk in the carb. Had to buy new a Yamaha 8hp(all I could afford) to replace it.
PerfectaDude
New Member
slls
Minister of Fire
I could not get myself to burn food, when there are people in the world starving . They warn you not to eat wood pellets.
jtakeman
Minister of Fire
jtakeman
Minister of Fire
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