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Post in 'The Boiler Room - Wood Boilers and Furnaces' started by BoilerMan, Oct 14, 2012.
Here is the flue measurement setup
Note that the rear cover is removed for the previous post.
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I was hoping another Attack owner would be along here...
EWD had one but it was older without firetubes, totally different in that reguard.
Some pics of the upper chamber
Hey Taylor. I can not tell you about an Attack. I can tell you that it took me a while to get use to my gasser. You will not have buyer's remorse after you get use to it. You will use less wood and have less smoke. Like others have said already. Don't get to hung up on the temp or the creosote. The creosote in the upper chamber is just going to burn away. In the beginning I use to scrape some of it off and knock it into the deep red hot coal bed. (I didn't like it either. )Then I realized there was no reason to do it. It all ends up burning away when things get real hot anyway. You see, gassers are kind of like women. Our money also ends up burning away when we meet the right one and things get real hot. Did I even write that right?
Hey Taylor my upper chamber looks very much like yours.
I too hate the creosote. Last night I had a super hot fire going due to the fact that it was in the mid 40's we had done two loads of laundry, a load of dishes, and both girls had 15 min showers. When I checked the fire at 10 pm 90% of the creosote had dipped off off the side walls and burned off.
I'm thinking that this will happen (hot fires) more often when the weather gets colder, therefore preventing the build up in the upper chamber.
I have a thermocouple inserted right at the outlet of the boiler - before the flue pipe. My magnetic flue thermometer usually reads around 250 degrees 18" or so farther along.
Quite a trip seeing Nofossil posting again....
I measure my external pipe temps a bit closer to the boiler outlet than Nofossil. My magnetic thermometer usually holds pretty steady in the 350 range during peak burn. Single wall pipe, cheapo thermometer, your mileage may vary.
I had a magnetic stack gauge. I made a thermocouple with digital display. In the same spot internal 400+, external 250.
The integral probes are also very responsive. I checked the accuracy omine with boiling water and ice water. I can see it with a glance from 5' away.
I wondered about external vs. internal for a while. I have the thermometer that is inserted into the flu, they're sort of made for double walled pipe but I was told that if I wanted something accurate it was the only way to go. I've always noticed that my stack temps ran a bit higher then what most folks post on here (I've never ran in the 300s F) and I wondered how much variation there was from one type to another. You just answered my question...I'm really surprised there's that much of a swing!
My probe & magnetic guages are about 6" apart, and the probe reads at least 100f higher.
Your probe thermometer should read higher than the magnetic and IR thermometer, shouldn't it?
That's also what I was thinking.
Ok, so I just got home from work, got out the ladder, climbed up to the chimney cap...... If someone was trying to play a joke on me by spray painting the flue gloss black I'd believe them. I brushed it clean this spring and now it has the tell-tale glazed creosote gloss black. I'm not getting gasification, or at least not for long. I run the boiler "flat out" and I simply am not getting gasification all the time. Buyers remorse or at lest brand remorse, as no one else seems to have an Attack on here. I looks like a well made and quite simmilar to everyone else's Eartern Euro boiler. I'm going to just burn my EPA stove for awhile, until I get this figured out. I'm not going to glaze up my chimney any more. The old smoke dragon had high enough flue temps that I NEVER had buildup of any type in the flue. I check and clean from the top.
Maybe I have missed it but what is the moisture content of your wood?
Wet wood effectively kills your gasification flame. Do you have smoke?
this is the stack temp probe I use,and i think quite a few others here do too.
Taylor, consider these:
-Have you checked your chimney draft with a manometer? If below spec, it may play a part.
-Does the temp probe serve any other function than to give a temp readout? I have a feeling it is reading low - but thinking beyond that, if it was low and was serving another function, I would think you would be having the opposite problem - too hot.
-If I were you, the next thing I would try right now is pulling your turbs out (or some of them) & burning like that. Free & easy (relatively). If your draft is on the low side, the turbs would compound the problem. If pulling the turbs for a burn makes no difference at all, well, I guess you could call me truly stumped - assuming the unit is otherwise functioning correctly. No squirrels nests or packing peanuts in that thing is there?
Well my thoughts are the same Maple, pull the turbs out. This boiler has a suction (exhaust) fan, not forced draft like most others on here. I know yours is a nat draft unit and needs draft to function. I had a nat draft wood boiler in it's place with everything exactly the same with no problems at all. No somke when openingthe door either (unlike this one). That was one of the deciding factors on which boiler to buy. I liked the idea that if a door gasket was leaking it would not stink up the house.
I'm taking the whole air setup apart to see if there are any obstructions in there. Come to think of it, there was a mouse nest in the fiberglass insulation when I brought it home. Before I bought it, it was in a garage all last winter, but was new never fired. I hope there is something stuck in the air passages, then it'll be home free after that.
My wood MC averages 18%, I feel that the stack temp reading is accurate, based on alot of prevous wood stove and boiler expierence. After seeing the glazing at the chinmey top, it's not hot enough. If the stack were allowed to get hot enough, the glazing should evaporate back into smoke that it condensed from.
Bottom line: not good secondary combustion resulting in cool stack temps and smoke during the burn. My EPA stove is WORLDS cleaner than this right now, burning the same wood (it's going as I type, due to no boiler use). Sorry about the novel guys, and thanks fir all the input and ideas!
Did you try adjusting the fan speed-or air settings?
Almost seems like it is just underfiring,maybe it needs more air.
Fan is at 100% Hz. Factory primary air is wide open, and factory secondary is 1/3 open. I tried opening up the secondary with seemingly no difference. I'm in the disassembly moderight now. The suction fan looks like one from a pellet stove, although the motor is not the cheapo shaded pole variety. I'll take some pics.
Don't know about the Attack but on the EKO when new,the nozzle is cast in place with plastic tubes cast in place to form the secondary air tubes.
With the first firing the plastic melts out.Maybe yours is similar.
Also I recall some early EKOs had misaligned air tubes.
In other words check the secondary air tubes for obstructions.
I run mine at 600 deg F controlled with a type K TC in the flue stack. If I did not it would run hotter. Conventional wood boiler. Air intake controlled by stack temp PID controller.
Do you know where the original owner purchased it from? Kind of sounds like you need to talk to someone who knows these units.
They're pretty simple over all but if you don't know the quirks it can be frustrating.
Ok, so I opened up all the air controls (shutters) and inspected the primary and secondary air passages......all clear. I also removed the exhaust fan and took some pics of that, messed with the fan blade depth relitive to the suction hole, don't ask.
Air shutters, I peered in behind with a bore light. All clear, and was able to see all secondary refractory holes (air outlets).
Fan "suction hole" this soot is sandy and black
A shot of the lower chaimber, notice in the back you can see the glazed metal.
Fire in it now, same thing
Did you take some turbs out yet?
One thing I was wondering about was the NA/Euro voltages, and their hz. differences. I think it's 50 vs. 60? Wondering if yours is OK for the difference? Maybe it's all set up for NA anyway & might have nothing to do with it....
I think voltage would be a bigger issue then frequencies but I have to think Taylor and the importer took that into account.
Funny little side story, the reason Europe runs at 50hz vs 60hz in the US is 50 fit the metric system, or at least their frame of thought better the 60hz. 60hz doesn't suffer the same losses that 50hz does in transmission.