What steps are needed for a pellet Fireplace install for efficiency, performance & maximum comfort?

[Delta-T]

..the turbulation created by the reverse suctometer creates a vortex of polarized ions that....well, you get the idea...its like magic.

 

[Lousyweather]

getting too technical in here for me...simply, cold air has more Oxygen, which is one of the 3 components of combustion.....oxygen-heat-fuel.....which is the limiting reagent in the reaction that is combustion? With vehicles, its often oxygen....with stoves.....don't have a clue for sure, but I am guessing the same

 

[TheMightyMoe]

Why? Looking for some metrics...

If your already at max combustion ratio, adding 02 isn't going to make it combust more. In a vehicle, you typically are maxing the 02 to match the increased fuel ratio.

You can use COLD air to increase 02 or you can increase the volume of air to increase the quantity of 02. Since our stoves don't measure draft and adjust the fan accordingly, it's safe to assume they (manufacturer) already have calculated via pipe size / draft to account for complete combustion. Whether you use cold or warm air, you SHOULD be getting enough air for complete combustion assuming you get enough combustion air. (Where the OAK comes in)

Complete combustion implies that their is a set amount of excess air to insure there is never incomplete combustion. For solid fuels (Coal typically for boilers) the excess air is 25-35%. With that much excess air, it isn't going to matter if you increase the quantity of 02.

The concept of combustion air pre-heating is to preheat combustion air so that more heat from the combustion process remains available for heating. (Or with boilers generation of steam.)

As long you have complete combustion, use the hottest air you can get.

I suppose the real way to test this would be use a combustion analyzer with COLD outside air, then try again with warm indoor air.

I am a licensed boiler operator, but that is just what the book said. I don't have metrics, and if I did I doubt I'd remember them all. I ain't got none engineering degree.

If I trusted sel-kirk @ -50, I would have got some, but I don't.

 

[TheMightyMoe]

The question is:
1...Cold vs preheated combustion air differences might be relevant in theory and worthy of discussion but is it really significant with regards to pellet stoves?

"Process temperature is customarily used as a rough indication of where air preheating will be cost effective. Processes operating above 1,600° F are generally good candidates, while preheated air is difficult to justify on processes operating below 1,000° F. Those in the 1,000˚ to 1,600° F range may still be good candidates but must be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. These guidelines are not ironclad. Financial justification is based on energy (or Btu) saved, rather than on temperature differential. If a low temperature process has a high enough exhaust gas flow, energy savings may still exist, even though the exhaust gas temperature is lower than 1,000° F. " Resources Combustion Technology Manual.

An engineer who could calculate BTU loss of 10* degree air vs 50* degree would be able to math out us a real answer. There are just to many variables though.

 

[smwilliamson]

So are we in agreement that air traveling through an intake is not being dried?

 

[TheMightyMoe]

So are we in agreement that air traveling through an intake is not being dried?

I agree with this statement =0

 

[smoke show]

is heated air drier than not heated air?

 

[Delta-T]

is heated air drier than not heated air?

relatively speaking, no. warm air is able to keep more moisture in suspension than cold air.

 

[moey]

So are we in agreement that air traveling through an intake is not being dried?

If air is warmed the RH will go down. It will always contain the same amount of moisture though unless its dripping out somewhere magically.

 

[smwilliamson]

If air is warmed the RH will go down. It will always contain the same amount of moisture though unless its dripping out somewhere magically.

Even if the moisture was some whow released by passing down a warm vent, it's still being released in the vent traveling toward the stove... however, if the water molecules dawn their superman capes and take flight against the air stream perhaps they could escape the flames.

 

[Don2222]

Interesting thoughts

I do see the ash not sticking and not as cakey with the Selkirk DT in the morning when the outside air is very moist. So how can you guys explain that?

Looks like there is no good explanation of why we get caked ash.
See
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/what-causes-ashes-to-cake-up.45759/

So that makes it even harder to explain why the Selkirk DT system prevents alot of caked ash!

After more research, I think I have an explanation!

Selkirk DT does warm the fresh air coming into the burn pot. So there is no cold air mass meeting the warm moist air mass in the stove to produce rain! That is an exageration but no moisture precipitates out causing the ash to stick together like the ash turds in the Harman burn pots. These turds are on each side because that is where the cooler OAK air meets the warm moist air around the fire! With Selkirk DT there is no cold air to cause the moisture to precipitate out causing the ash to not stick together!

In the case of my Astoria being in a basement, the caked ash at the bottom of the burnpot is where the cooler moist air from the OAK met the warm moist air under the burn pot so moisture precipitated out causing the caked ash! After the Selkirk DT install, no more caked ash!