What's the best new catalytic stove?

[Roospike]

From what dealers have told me as well as all the stuff i have read about Cat stoves and non cat stoves is even tho a cat stove is on the average more efficient then the non cat stove at new the cat goes down hill year after year and can go from 2.6 g/ph in the first year to 20. grams per hour by year 4 as where the non cat stove will keep its efficiency . There was a test showing the Pacific Energy stove for example ( non cat ) and it had the same efficiency as when it was new after 11 years of use.

Maybe this is why there is a higher standard for efficiency on the cat stoves as they dont keep there efficiency the same over the years .

Just yapping out loud .

 

[stoveguy2esw]

the concensus i see forming is that the "non-cat units are easier to operate, elk hit the nail on the head about the early days of cat units (too darn big a post to quote) but very good. non cat stoves are the next generation, i currently have an englander cat unit built in 1993, heated my house by itself for better thann a decade with no cat related problems at all, but then i work with them all the time and know how to operate them, they can be tricky for "old timers" and new users alike as they draft differently , have the opposite type of fire from the old "smoke dragons" and had an overall negative effect on wood burning industry due to these issues, non-cats are more similar to the old type units in their operation with the benifit of reburn technology. some folks honestly prefer the cat units because they really work well if operated correctly and these folks may not expect that a non-cat will do as well in the "long burn" cycles achieved with cat units. personally i like my cat unit and even though we have newer probably overall better performing non-cats , i do not see myself rippinig out a 525 lb workiing no trouble unit to put in the new one , maybe in the future but not now. we (ESW) do not build cat stoves anymore, not because they were bad units (hardly so) but the non-cat units is where the market went and we went with the market

 

[elkimmeg]

cleaning you cat combustor is like changing oil in your car keep it clean it will preform I had read that stydt many years ago but I do rmember one important conclusion and one neglected fact anual stove mantance was lacking no on confirmed whether the cat combustors were clean or what conditions ther were to start with If you ask me pretty un scientific rendering any valid conclusions worthless as was the study

Every stove needs a totla cleaning at least at the start of the burning season and at mid point the ###1 cause of deteriorating preformance is fly ash accumulations in air pasages If I had the test equipment here my older stoves would prove that they preform as good or better than OEM . I use a more complete better combustor that the OEM ones 24 % wider range of light off effeciencies and yes they are cleanned and inspected. Youi are quoting from a flawed bogus report.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

from a retailers standpoint, i dont miss the catalytic days.
FWIW, i completly agree with elks comments on the subject.
For the general population, there not worth the trouble, hince the total domination of non cats in todays market.

 

[elkimmeg]

I know I the type of guy tha did not want to give up the srick shift for automatic Even my Subaru Forester is a stick
Had college tuition not force me to sell I had a nunbers match 1971 LT1 corvette up tilla few years back. I restored all the mechanics and only had the interior to do to
complete a show car Ran out of money and college bills came due I had the second one ever made 1964,5 189 Mustang 4brl comple history authenicate I complete rebuilt this car including the interior and won many clasic car shows for most original. I made it all the way to my daughters last semester paid and it had to go for college Why h Cornell Wheaton and Villanova
So a person like myself working and getting the most out of older technology should not suprise anyone.

On the drawing board is the combination of the everburn technology and a super Cat combustor made out of stainless steel not ceramic like todays. At this time the cost of manufacturing
this combustor is cost prohibited. the challange is to refine the manufacturing process to make it econimical to bring it to production . Leaked to me the stainless steel does not degrade like the ceramic and burns so clean it will leapfrog all of todays ceeanest and and effrecient. Again It may be a proto type that never makes it to market. If it does ther will be a new yard stick to whick all stoves will be measured against

 

[Roospike]

Off of woodstock web site.

*************************************************************************
Q. How do I know when my catalytic combustor needs to be replaced?

A. It’s pretty straightforward. You will notice two things: (1) your stove will produce less heat, and (2) the smoke coming out the chimney will be noticeably darker, and will have some “woodsmoke odor”. When your catalyst is working properly, it produces lots of heat. As it wears out the decline in heat output will be noticeable. And when the catalyst is working properly, the “smoke” is almost all carbon dioxide and water vapor, so it appears to be white, or light grey. As the combustor’s performance declines over time, the smoke will appear noticeably darker.

*************************************************************************

If the catalytic combustor didnt decline over time then why replace the unit ?

If I had the test equipment here my older stoves would prove that they preform as good or better than OEM .

I would agree that an older stove with a NEW catalytic combustor you should get great performace , but i would not agree that after 2+ years the catalytic combustor performace is as listed to when the stove was fitted with a new catalytic combustor.

Cars and trucks do the same thing , the catalytic combustor works as it should when new but over time it looses its performace and goes downhill from use and needs replacing.

A 2+ year old catalytic combustor is not allowing the same low emissions levels as when new and the catalytic combustor / wood stove should not be expected to obtain the same g/ph as when new.

**************************************************************************

Also off of woodstock web site.

The catalytic combustor in your stove will have to be replaced every 4-5 years. Its replacement cost (about $100) is a small price to pay for the increased efficiency, clean-burning, and peace-of-mind it offers. And, it’s much easier to replace a catalyst than a warped firebox.

 

[Roospike]

Catalytic Convertors:
Replacing a worn out catalytic convertor brings new life to an aging stove! Burn times can increase by 50%, while you can realize as much as twice the heat from the same piece of wood. Your chimney stays much cleaner (and safer!), and you're protecting our valuable air quality. For most stove owners, the savings in wood alone pay for the replacement catalytic convertor many times over, not to mention the increased safety and convenience.
Get Pricing Details


Since 1988, all wood stoves have been required by the EPA to burn cleanly. To achieve this, many have used a catalytic convertor, very much like what is found on a car. Over time, however, it will gradually lose efficiency until it is completely inactive.

So this tells me that between catalytic combuster changes every 3-4 years the efficiency decreases by about 50% .


Not trying for this to be a cat vs non-cat debate but when the cat topic come up i think its important for owners new and old to know about Catalytic Convertors , to me the Catalytic Convertors topic always seems to be "sugar coated" . It is what it is and they are what they are.

Its most important to remember to keep up with maintenance and replacement of such units for maximum efficiency.

 

[elkimmeg]

roo for the normal user you are correct when you chain gets dull do you throw it a way no you maintain it and resharpen it What I saying is bi yearly manitance keeps my combustors clean and working effecient I can't comment as this is only the second year with them but Stoveguy mike has had the original combustor for 13 years the Combustor .com are pro rated garantted for 7 years. then there is the ultimate way to clean them restoring the dirties one back to near normal preformance
by boiling 12/water and vinigear for 5 minutes inter cast with the surfaces and cleans them far superior the a vac or blow gum the boiling action leaves all ash and sediment in the pan

This is recomended again at Stove combustors.com it can be documented there the warrent claim and the lower temp light off of the combustors. None of this is fabricated but fully supported by the manufacturer. the combustor in my 1999 encore I was going to replace but it was in good shape I boiled it and that stove has delivered the goods. Never bought the replacement
for testing purposes the interpid had the original combustor no degrading of the honey cone stamped 1987 I boild that one it works quit well but I was spoiled with the stove combustors.com one with the extended heat range I have pulled bot out and replace they trying to draw comparisons the stove combustor.com plain out preforms the original OEM I magnified is comfirmed that after the biol the ceramic coating is still there and in decent condition

Repeat CAt stoves are not for all it takes wanting to burn cleaner using less wood extracting more heat from it type, of indivual willing to make them work. but again it not all that much work stage 2 charing close the damper and wait 8 plus hours to reload mean while griddle temps neve drop below 450 and for only the last 30 minutes before reload
Just like you PE opperation with ETB and thermatically contriled air no different except you fire box is larger

 

[Roospike]

That would be a good FYI link to post .

stovecombustors.com

Warranty..... Your Combustor is covered by an extended six year warranty. This includes a full replacement warranty for the first two years and an additional third year of protection against "thermal crumbling". The balance of the warranty includes a pro-rated discount allowing you to purchase a replacement combustor for up to 50% off the list price !
Maintenance... our Maintenance and Operating Procedure provides a "step-by-step" guide for Installation, Proper Operation and Periodic Cleaning of the Combustor. The guidelines in this procedure should be followed at all times when operating a CS-200 Stove Combustor.

http://stovecombustors.com/howtoorder/warranty.html

links to : WARRANTY , MAINTENANCE and EPA Approval per PDF files.

 

[Roospike]

I was also reading some where in the EPA web site that catalytic combusters have to be covered for 6 years. Unsure to being pro-rated or full warranty

 

[elkimmeg]

Roo thanks for the link The vinigear cleanning instructions came with the combustor

the original post was the best new cat stove The word new is subject to debate New meaning bought right from retail or
new meaning just developed model for retail..

Maybe I should explain wht most manufactures do Every model stove comes up for re-certification in 5 years (EPA and UL)

as certification is approaching the model run is accessed did it sell well has technology improved can the newer technology enhance this stove
It is this time when R&D changes are made In the case of VC non Cat Intrepid it was not wortyh the R&D to bring it up the EPA phase II They plain did not sell enough
and they alread had the Aspen that fuilled the marker and heat range discontinued that model. The cat Interpid fill a unique range swall fire box heater that
puts out decent heat and has decent burn times IT will be interesting to see what they do with the Cat Encore and Defiants they already have the Everburn models to replace them

The bad rap the Cat stoves have though I believe vastly overstated did and has reduced demand for the stoves, Unless some new technology and hype occurs I doubt we will see
to many more model runs.

It would take a super combustor with hyped up everburn technology to renew interest A stove the achieved 84 % or better effeciency that plain blows all other stoves out of the water

Woodstock on the other hand is doing ok with there quality reputation and soapstone stoves. Nobody is dissing woodstock for being a Cat stove

Maybe the new Cat will have a longer life and less degradation over its life span.

Roo if you had one you would be like me getting the most out of it knowing how to opperate burning clean wood taking care of the cat. That's the problem
hell many here don't take the time to read any part of their manuals How often do we download their manual and point out the info was right in front of them

I'm resigned to the fact Cat stoves are a dieing breed. But sure as hell making mine work

 

[hearthtools]

Only a small Population of people are mechanical enough to be able to clean there stove out once on twice a year.
then they need to call a chimney sweep and In my area most of them have no idea how to clean a CAT.

We get the phone call all week long about Smoke coming into the house. 99% of the time it is due to the Cap screen clogged up.
Now imagine the same people with CATs in the stove.
I asked the same people when you did clean or have the chimney cleaned last most of them say it has been 2-5 years.

When Hearth stone had CATs in the stoves the had a few bypass levers you had to put and change with start up and heat levels.

15 year ago before I sold hearthstone I had a Customer buy a pellet stove to replace his one year old Hearthstone Cat Madel. We said he felt like the wizard of OZ pulling handles all the time. He had us put is on his Deck and he used this $2000 stove as a planter.

 

[Gunner]

quote author="hearthtools" date="1169667127"]Only a small Population of people are mechanical enough to be able to clean there stove out once on twice a year.
then they need to call a chimney sweep and In my area most of them have no idea how to clean a CAT.

We get the phone call all week long about Smoke coming into the house. 99% of the time it is due to the Cap screen clogged up.
Now imagine the same people with CATs in the stove.
I asked the same people when you did clean or have the chimney cleaned last most of them say it has been 2-5 years.

When Hearth stone had CATs in the stoves the had a few bypass levers you had to put and change with start up and heat levels.

15 year ago before I sold hearthstone I had a Customer buy a pellet stove to replace his one year old Hearthstone Cat Madel. We said he felt like the wizard of OZ pulling handles all the time. He had us put is on his Deck and he used this $2000 stove as a planter.[/quote]


Good Point,
Most stove owners are lucky to get there chimney cleaned once a year, let alone do any maintanence on it. We are the minority here at hearthnet, most could care less, they just want heat. 99.9% don't spend there time on a woodburning forum that for sure LOL

 

[Sandor]

Most stoves that where Cat stoves just a few years ago have changed to NON CAT due to the fact that there is Less maintenance, easier to use and Better looking fire. and it saves $100 - $400 for not having a cat.

You did not answer the persons question.

Troll.

You calling me a Troll?
I dont see you with an Answer.

I dont have any stoves on my showroom that are Cat.

*****, read below my signature line.

And yes, you are a troll, if you know what that means.

 

[Sandor]

Most stoves that where Cat stoves just a few years ago have changed to NON CAT due to the fact that there is Less maintenance, easier to use and Better looking fire. and it saves $100 - $400 for not having a cat.

You did not answer the persons question.

Troll.

Sandor,

What's with the name-calling? The guy simply stated an opinion about cat-vs non-cat and for that, you call him a "troll"??? You didn't answer the question either....does that mean I should also call you a "troll"????? Oh....so you don't also call me names, my vote for best small cat is the VC Intrepid II in black enamel!

Bottom line: Careful about name-calling Sandor or you could be joining Dylan in a "time-out"....it would give you plenty of time to come up with new names you could call people other than "troll"....LOL

Do you remember what the original question was?

Tell you what, I will give myself a "self imposed" timeout. And you need to go look up the definition of a troll.

Been away from this site for weeks now. Now I know why I stayed away.

Will check back in a month or so....

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

Yea sandor, we can help you with that time out.
You need to chill out. We dont need that around here.
For now, this thread is closed.