Where have all the manual transmissions gone?

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Update: I just did a quick Google search and there are quite a few new pickups with 5 or 6 speed manuals. Anything else would really have surprised me because I know it is near impossible to find an auto anything in Europe and the same folks make vehicles for that market as make them for here.

As far as I know the only new full size 4x4 pickup available with a manual transmission is the Dodge Ram 2500 with the 5.9L Cummins diesel. It's said that CVTs get better mpg than manuals, maybe that's true but I've yet to see a truck with a CVT. Maybe the 6 - 8 speed automatics in new trucks would do a bit better today than a manual, but it's hard to say since except for the Dodge straight 6 diesel they're aren't any to compare. I guess I like manuals similar to a reason of owning a wood stove - there's more work involved - but the end result is more satisfying, even if the net savings isn't that significant.
 
I didn't realize they were an endangered species. My Civic, wife's Corolla, my S-10 and my bike are all manual shift. I haven't owned an automatic in over 30 years.
Maybe why I didn't know is that I haven't gone shopping for a car or truck in quite a while.

Update: I just did a quick Google search and there are quite a few new pickups with 5 or 6 speed manuals. Anything else would really have surprised me because I know it is near impossible to find an auto anything in Europe and the same folks make vehicles for that market as make them for here.


Europeans are shifting fast into the past. Volkswagon is pushing their DSG Borg-Warner automatic gearboxes and Audi is hawking the similar somewhat S-tronic.
I haven't seen a manual shift Mercedes cab in ages.

Torque-converters on small engines extracted a higher percentage loss of power and fuel efficiencies than on larger V-6 and V-8 engines that are popular in the states. those larger engines mate with larger cars and heavier crumple zone mandate vehicles. Plus driving habits and out road system . Given the ratio of large engine vs small engine vehicles between the U.S. and many Euro countries it isn't hard to understand the ratio of popularity given fuel costs. And in some cases a luxury tax on auto transmissions.
With the advent of torque converter-less auto transmissions and improvements on drivetrains the manual advantage is drying up and so is their prevalence.
 
Update: I just did a quick Google search and there are quite a few new pickups with 5 or 6 speed manuals. Anything else would really have surprised me because I know it is near impossible to find an auto anything in Europe and the same folks make vehicles for that market as make them for here.

None of our pickups sell in Europe, so that's no reason for them to equip with manuals specifically. Similarly every German lux sedan sold in Germany, even up to the S clss and 7 series has a manual - but over here they sell them auto only. Not even a manual option.

Just because the manuals sell in the home market doesnt mean we get them here. They import what they know will sell.


The emissions are more difficult to deal with on a standard., that in combination with a far lower demand means standards are endangered.


Its not emmisions so much as CAFE. Put an auto in the car and they can use a lot of gears and program a shift pattern that deliberately lugs the engine to keep revs low - making the fuel economy numbers look good. My Tacoma is that way, I have to step on it to get it to downshift and hold revs over 2k. really annoying at times.
 
German
BMW - its an option on the 2,3 and most M cars.
Audi - option on most
VW - option on some like the Golf, GTi, etc
Merc - option on a couple models
Not an option on as many Audi's as you would think. This is why, for the first time in 13 years, we do not have an Audi in the garage, today. In most cases, the selection of any desirable option (eg. upgraded engine) eliminates the availability of the manual 6-speed.

Also on Mercedes. You can get it on a few of the cheaper and sportier models, but not on M-class or S-class. I suspect they have also dropped it on E-class as well, but have not personally checked.
 
define "our" and "pickups".
http://www.ford.co.uk/Cars/Ranger
course they've had to replace the Sport trac with something.


Our meaning American manufacturer pickups - Ram, Silverado, F-Series, etc. The US market Ranger was discontinued in 2011. the international version that is still sold worldwide is slightly different than the us spec model and is designed by Ford Australia (sold as both Ranger and Mazda B). Kind of like how Toyota only sells the Tacoma in the US and everywhere else its the Hilux, similar platform but different in a lot of details.

I would imagine now that HCevy has brought back the Colorado Ford may consider bringing back the Ranger also, but so far no announcement.
 
Not an option on as many Audi's as you would think. This is why, for the first time in 13 years, we do not have an Audi in the garage, today. In most cases, the selection of any desirable option (eg. upgraded engine) eliminates the availability of the manual 6-speed.

Also on Mercedes. You can get it on a few of the cheaper and sportier models, but not on M-class or S-class. I suspect they have also dropped it on E-class as well, but have not personally checked.

Hmm.. Doesn't surprise me. Infinity dropped it on all heir models as well recently.

for the first time in my life I now own an automatic as my DD. [hangs head in shame]
 
What I have always been surprised to see, is Dodge Ram 1500 pickups in Germany. Quite popular for young men, there. I see at least one a day there, usually more. I have never seen an American 3/4 or 1-ton pickup in Europe, tho.
 
What is a CVT?
 
Continuously variable transmission.
 
Allegedly less service and better longevity. [...] FWIW, recently coming up from CA I frequently saw diesel fuel at or less than regular gas prices. Lowest was $2.08.

Up here in New England I do not think I've ever seen diesel anywhere near the cost of regular gas. Usually its about the same price as premium.

In terms of gas mileage, I once asked the owner of an F350 diesel what he got for mileage... he said "about 9". Now, granted, there are a lot of variables there, such as the gearing, etc.... but all that extra tow capacity is meaningless when my Tundra gets 15-16mpg average and tows everything I need it to.

If I could have bought a manual diesel that gets the same gas mileage (assuming I could have found one) it would have still cost me more $$$ overall given the price difference between fuel (reg vs premium), the up-front price-premium, and then the added cost of maintenance of the engine itself.

At least my daily commuter, a 2010 corolla S, is a stick :)
 
my Tundra gets 15-16mpg average and tows everything I need it to.
What does your tundra get when towing a heavy load? Thats where diesel really starts to make it's large gains over gas. It maintains fuel efficiency when the engine is heavily loaded; gas loses that efficiency because the AFR has to be richened when heavily loaded.

That being said, that guy certainly wasn't giving you an accurate representation of the mileage of the diesel. My brother drives a full-size Dodge 3500 with the Cummins diesel and gets 24+ on the highway. Towing big loads the mileage doesn't drop too far from the 24 figure unless the load has a great deal of wind resistance (can't do much about that).
 
FWIW, I drive a Subaru Forester now, mainly because it was the only thing in AWD or 4wd that could tow 2,000+ lbs and had a stick. I bought it used, wasn't looking at the new market.

Also bought my '02 stick Forester used, runs great. It's a great winter SUV with the heated seats that are part of the winter weather package. Before getting the Silverado I had towed firewood with a trailer a few times, and loaded up in back. I don't get to drive it much since I have a company car. That's a CVT, and for a small SUV admittedly gets very good mpg, but it's FWD. At 65 mph the engine in only at 2000 rpm, low for a 2.4 4 cylinder. Up until 2009 Subaru geared manual Outbacks low (high numerically) in 5th gear, at 65 mph my Outback turned around 3200 rpm. I didn't like that - the engine was certainly capable of sustaining that speed, even on a slight incline. I've always wondered why Subaru geared that era of Outbacks accordingly. My Forester is geared a bit higher.
 
What is a CVT?

What I have always been surprised to see, is Dodge Ram 1500 pickups in Germany. Quite popular for young men, there. I see at least one a day there, usually more. I have never seen an American 3/4 or 1-ton pickup in Europe, tho.
So your ashfull now? Why the name change?

And like others said they may get a totally different truck in other countries.

I wish I could buy a bare bones Hilux here!!

They still make the sebtra in mexico that looks like it did here 17 years ago here!

As far as I know ford F series dont have a manual and I know chevy and f150 there is not even an option.
 
What does your tundra get when towing a heavy load? Thats where diesel really starts to make it's large gains over gas. It maintains fuel efficiency when the engine is heavily loaded; gas loses that efficiency because the AFR has to be richened when heavily loaded.

Yes and no.

There area few reasons for the fuel efficiency advantage of diesel over gas.


#1 is that to generate the high compression needed for ignition, diesel engines have long stroke to bore ratios and run at lower RPMs giving time to extract more usable energy each stroke.

#2 is that the diesel throttles by varying fuel charge, so its almost always running over lean. However, have you ever seen a diesel under high load "rolling coal" ? Whats happening is that the fuel charge is actually over rich and some of its going right out the exhaust as soot.

Conversely, a lot of gasoline cars stay in the closed loop map at the 14.7:1 optimum lean ratio unless you either floor it to WOT or it detects detonation/high EGT then it will switch to the open loop map and go over rich to like 8:1


#3 And this is the big advantage - because diesels throttle by fuel there is no throttle valve and the intake is always wide open eliminating most pumping losses. This is an advantage to diesel at light load, but under heavy load when the gas cars throttle is open the advantage is gone.


So i think ?? the diesel overall might actually have more advantage at light load.
 
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What is WOT? Volkswagen's new Passat (or is it called Sportswagen) has a diesel option along with a manual transmission. Sounds nice, don't think AWD is an option though.

I went online and 'built' a 2015 Dodge 2500 Tradesman 4x4. Since the 6 speed manual requires the Cummins diesel, the price increased by about $8k. The Tradesman is the base model, the price without any other options was about $41k. That would be a great truck to have - I'd consider it if I won the lottery.

For now (probably for good) my 2001 Chevy 1500 that I got for $5k is fine, it's a weekend truck. The Chevy is decent for an automatic, it's not overly sensitive - what I mean is it will hold a gear up a slight incline and won't downshift unnecessarily. Before that I had a Dodge Dakota 2WD with a 5 speed manual. I really liked that truck - and the size of it. Although the bed wasn't 4' between the wheel wells, it was 6.5' long. I would have been in trouble with it though if I used it this winter to get firewood from a couple places. Also my son was staying off campus on a hilly road, he also has an older AWD Subaru that does great in snow but it's up there in miles, if it needed repairs I'd want him to borrow something with 4WD, another reason I got the Chevy.
 
In terms of gas mileage, I once asked the owner of an F350 diesel what he got for mileage... he said "about 9". Now, granted, there are a lot of variables there, such as the gearing, etc.... but all that extra tow capacity is meaningless when my Tundra gets 15-16mpg average and tows everything I need it to.

Something is horribly wrong with his engine or he is towing at or near capacity all the time if he is really getting 9mpg. Your Tundra is a fine vehicle but keep in mind it's a 1/2 ton truck getting worse mileage than my 1 ton 4x4.

Allegedly less service and better longevity. They produce more torque and usually get better mileage. This makes them good for load hauling and towing. FWIW, recently coming up from CA I frequently saw diesel fuel at or less than regular gas prices. Lowest was $2.08.

That was a Socratic inquiry on my part - I've owned a 1999 Dodge 3500 with a diesel engine since 2007 and my experience is as follows

- I get about 18-19MGP combined mileage and 24+ on the freeway. The same vehicle (1ton 4x4)with a gas powered v8 or v10 will get about half that mileage

- Upfront cost is more, but resale is also more, so that's a wash

- Diesel fuel prices vary in relation to gasoline but for most of the last 8 years it has hovered between regular and premium. With nearly double the mileage diesel would have to be nearly double the price to compete.

- The cost of maintenance is not a cut-and-dried issue. For example, my truck holds 12 quarts of oil, so oil changes are more expensive. But since my truck holds 12 quarts of oil they are also less frequent. Oil filters, fuel filters, air filters are all about the same price vs gasoline. IMO the only advantage for gasoline is the matter of catastrophic failure or repair: replacing a diesel engine could put you out $10000 and an injector pump $3000+
 
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No recent experience with diesel trucks, so I refrained from arguing, but my experience with gas v diesel tractors agrees with Redd. I get more than double the hours per gallon in the Diesel tractor, than I ever did on the gas tractor, and the diesel is bigger/heavier.
 
I might have said this, but you could have one leg and an arm out of commission and still drive an automatic.
 
They are endangered. Even Ferrari has stopped selling manuals. Porsche models and BMWs now even mostly offer an auto or paddle shift automated manual as standard, with a manual option that has to be ordered.

If you want a manual:

Japanses
Honda - Civic, Accord
Toyota... I *think* the Corolla has one. Tacoma truck offers it on 4 cylinder trims. Maybe 4 runner?
Nissan... Their sports cars like the 370z and Scion FR-S. Possibly the Sentra?
Subaru- a bunch of them do

Korean
I have no idea about Kia or Hyundai

German
BMW - its an option on the 2,3 and most M cars.
Audi - option on most
VW - option on some like the Golf, GTi, etc
Merc - option on a couple models


US
Ford - option on Mustang, and I beleive hte Focus sport, etc. No idea if any of the F series trucks or larger sendans offer.
Chevy - I think a couple models offer option?
Dodge - no idea
Jeep - I think Wrangler

Minor point . . . the Scion FR-S is in fact a Scion . . . a sister division if you would to Toyota. That said, the FR-S and Subaru BR-Zs are also known as "Toybarus" since both the FR-S and BR-Z share parts from Toyota and Subaru. Supposedly the design of this car was by Toyota and a lot of the power train and other components came from Subaru. Both the FR-S and less commonly seen BR-Z can be found with either manual or automatic options.

Subaru: Outback and Legacy are no longer offered with stick shift. Forester, Impreza, Crosstrek, BRZ and WRX however can be optioned with or without automatic.
 
Yes and no.

There area few reasons for the fuel efficiency advantage of diesel over gas.


#1 is that to generate the high compression needed for ignition, diesel engines have long stroke to bore ratios and run at lower RPMs giving time to extract more usable energy each stroke.

#2 is that the diesel throttles by varying fuel charge, so its almost always running over lean. However, have you ever seen a diesel under high load "rolling coal" ? Whats happening is that the fuel charge is actually over rich and some of its going right out the exhaust as soot.

Conversely, a lot of gasoline cars stay in the closed loop map at the 14.7:1 optimum lean ratio unless you either floor it to WOT or it detects detonation/high EGT then it will switch to the open loop map and go over rich to like 8:1


#3 And this is the big advantage - because diesels throttle by fuel there is no throttle valve and the intake is always wide open eliminating most pumping losses. This is an advantage to diesel at light load, but under heavy load when the gas cars throttle is open the advantage is gone.


So i think ?? the diesel overall might actually have more advantage at light load.
First of all, yes, I'm familiar with diesel engines, and gas engines, both in the engine/dyno lab and on the street (and off-road). I understand the primary differences between them. Your theory's are a bit flawed, primarily because they are just theory and don't actually take into account all the variables.

#2, "rolling coal" has nothing to do with this. If some punk young kid wants to chip his truck and pour tons of fuel into the cylinder to produce soot it has nothing at all to do with fuel efficiency. We're talking about reasonable use of a truck. Yes, there are occasions where even a factory truck can produce some soot, but the turbo charger does a pretty good job of taking care of that issue. Within normal operation the diesel engine, even heavily loaded, won't produce soot, and will run very efficiently. Why? Because it has a turbo. The turbo pumps additional air into the cylinder to make up for the additional fuel being supplied and you get tremendous torque rise. You won't get that in a gas engine, to compensate you must go larger engine. Of course, you can turbo-charge a gas engine too, but at high boost pressure in a gas engine you have to richen the AFR quite a bit to keep combustion smooth and prevent overheating of engine parts. It's just the nature of the beast.

#3 First of all, I think you have a mis-understanding of pumping losses and how they effect an engine. The more air available, the more air the engine ingests the greater the pumping loss. That being said, pumping losses are mostly negligible in the grand scheme of things. We're talking about towing a heavy load, pumping losses only make a noticeable difference to the engine (gas or diesel) at light load. You stated that the diesel loses it's advantage when the gas is at WOT, but remember the point you made in item #2, at WOT the gas is going over-rich, and efficiency drops off a ton. Whereas at WOT, the diesel is still running at/near optimum AFR and the only downside you highlighted was that it loses it's advantage on pumping losses. Even if there were an advantage is it really a downside that the diesel "lost it's advantage" on a negligible point? The real magic is happening with the AFR and the torque rise due to the longer stroke of the diesel, not the pumping losses.

Throw out theory and "what should happen" all you want, but hook up a gas truck to a the same trailer/load as a diesel truck, run the same course of driving, then do the same with no trailer and compare the results. Diesels have an enormous torque rise when they are loaded down and can still maintain an optimum AFR, gas engines just can't match it. You will see less fuel economy drop on the diesel engine when it's towing a load than on the gas...
 
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